knuckleball

Discuss your training routine and techniques you are practicing
messimaradona
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knuckleball

Post by messimaradona »

OK, so basically i've seen/ heard of two ways to knuckle. One is to use like the top left part of your foot which kinda looks like a side footed shot, such as in this video

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHuHxW2Cr3s&feature=related


The other way is the way i've been practicing which is to just straight up instep drive middle of the ball, middle of the foot. I have been working on this a lot and have seen it knuckle and actually had one with ABSOLUTELY NO spin. It also seems like this technique wields more power. I don't have a video of this, but it is basically just a perfect instep drive.

So what I'm getting at is which technique is better so i can determine which to practice more in order to becoem a dead ball specalist.
Thanks
klc123
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Post by klc123 »

Why people want to hit a knuckle ball is beond me, why would you intentionally hit a ball that you have no idea is going to end up, ive never seen a player score from hitting one without it been utter fluke, juniho and c ronaldo both hit their freekicks with topspin and extra swerve, its still that makes the ball do what it does, not just a complete lucky draw.
MUFC1994
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Post by MUFC1994 »

klc123 wrote:Why people want to hit a knuckle ball is beond me, why would you intentionally hit a ball that you have no idea is going to end up,
If you don't know where the ball is going neither does the keeper.....
"The road to athletic greatness is not marked by perfection but the ability to constantly overcome adversity and failure."
avipbn
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Post by avipbn »

Well the object of the knuckle ball isn't just, "Hopefully the goalie doesn't know which what where to go." When you achieve a knuckle ball, there's less wind resistance on the ball, making it go faster. The movement is there, but alot of the times its minuscule, or is in the net before it gets a chance.


In Summary: Knuckle ball = Fast ball.
Wuzi
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Post by Wuzi »

this video also shows some very good examples.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHuHxW2C ... re=related
Image
messimaradona
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Post by messimaradona »

thanks for the responses guys, but no one is really answering my question, and wuzi that is the exact same link i gave in my original post
NewBornProdigy
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Post by NewBornProdigy »

klc123 wrote:Why people want to hit a knuckle ball is beond me, why would you intentionally hit a ball that you have no idea is going to end up, ive never seen a player score from hitting one without it been utter fluke, juniho and c ronaldo both hit their freekicks with topspin and extra swerve, its still that makes the ball do what it does, not just a complete lucky draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX0y1kum ... F&index=39 :D utter fluke you say? topspin only you say? :D

But the swerve is usually very minimal and super unpredictable, so it is best to hit it centraly from, long distance, which will force either a parry from the keeper (possibly to a teammate) or go straight past him for a really embarissing moment for the keeper
Well the object of the knuckle ball isn't just, "Hopefully the goalie doesn't know which what where to go." When you achieve a knuckle ball, there's less wind resistance on the ball, making it go faster. The movement is there, but alot of the times its minuscule, or is in the net before it gets a chance.
When you achieve a non spinning ball at a medium pace the drag coefficent reduces (so less wind resistance)

When you achieve a non spinning ball at a high pace the aerodynamic stability of the ball becomes unstable causing it to swerve in different directions at random
That is what the knuckle shot is, a non spinning shot is not a knuckle shot unless its going seriously fast
thanks for the responses guys, but no one is really answering my question, and wuzi that is the exact same link i gave in my original post
http://www.expertfootball.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=15192
Look at the contents and search for the Instep Presentation section, then refer to the Ball Effects section

But in my opinion if your ankle is locked but you approach the ball at an angle you can have a perfectly straight instep but it may looked sidefooted
How and ever... hitting the ball exactly with your laces is infact bad technique, you should be concentrating on hitting your instep, not your laces

Lastly for control sakes go with the first
klc123
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Post by klc123 »

Ok maybe juninho uses knuckleball shots, but imo Ronaldo scores much more spectacular freekicks just by smashing the ball as hard as he can with lots of topspin and bit of side swerve. I still maintain that i would rather know exactly where the ball is gonna end up so i can put it in the top hand corner, no keeper will save that no matter how fast its going.
messimaradona
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Post by messimaradona »

How is laces bad technique thats how you get most power
NewBornProdigy
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Post by NewBornProdigy »

Ok maybe juninho uses knuckleball shots, but imo Ronaldo scores much more spectacular freekicks just by smashing the ball as hard as he can with lots of topspin and bit of side swerve. I still maintain that i would rather know exactly where the ball is gonna end up so i can put it in the top hand corner, no keeper will save that no matter how fast its going.
Well I probably just annoying at this stage

But Juninho use's a multitude of different shot techniques
-Inside Swerve
-Topspin
-A combo of both of the above
-Knuckle Shots from long distances

Ronaldo doesn't have that versatility (although he is capable of varying it, wittness his goal v EuroIX or Sunderland) but his technique is way cooler imo, and when he scores a good topspin shot it looks amazing

But if I was 38m out (45 yards i think) I would go with a knuckleball like juninho, because the unpredictability is more of a danger from that distance then perfect accuracy
And over that distance the knuckle effect really has time to works
How is laces bad technique thats how you get most power
What can you notice about these two pictures?

Image
Image

Well let me point it out
Their hips are fully rotated (their hips are open)
Why is that good?

Think of your leg like a pendelum on a clock, it has to be relaxed but steady when swinging forward, so the easiest way to move it forward in this motion is by swinging your thigh and upper leg forward

Once you can get maximum power from hip rotation, you need to fully extend your kicking leg when your swinging at the ball (so rotate your hip and then extend your leg in sequence)

Of course this is impossible unless your approach is angled or else your foot will kick a big divot from the ground and you will ptrobably break all your toes and your ankle
(Also you cannot rotate your hips properly if you approach straight on)

Lastly once you can approach from an angle, rotate your hips and extended your leg
You need to be able to contact the ball in the cleanest and most focused way possible
This is of course your instep, but common misconception is instilled by calling your 'laces' the reference point for the instep for very young kids by their coaches

Infact if you strike with your laces, you have to rotate your foot slightly so the locking effect is weakend, you aren't actually contacting on the instep just a large part of your foot, in order to hit the laces your foot has to be perpendicular with the ground when striking, you have much less control over your shot compared with a instep and no extra power (if you can do the instep correctly)

Image

As you can see... he seems to use his instep, and he doesn't half know how to hit them with power

Its more of a reference issue with most people
Because the mistake between the laces or sidefooted shot is infact to different versions of an instep drive

And a real sidefooted shot is contacted with the arch of your foot and barely leaves the ground or doesn't swerve that much
messimaradona
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Post by messimaradona »

i see what you are saying and the visual aides are great but how come when a player like wayne rooney strikes, he uses his laces
Beadling19
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Post by Beadling19 »

If you want to see some amazing knuckle shots check this video out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFgPiowmIjE


As you can see he is using his instep as well...no laces.
NewBornProdigy
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Post by NewBornProdigy »

i see what you are saying and the visual aides are great but how come when a player like wayne rooney strikes, he uses his laces
Its the way he learned... like I said, bad coaching references, I do often see Rooney take proper instep drives when he is a distance out, but he does use his laces a fair bit (aside from volleys, how often does he score from outside the box with his laces?)

But bad technique can be mastered and turned into good technique... although learning the 'correct' instep would be alot more benifical in the long term

The main difference, between the two is height control and spin control
With an instep you really have much better control with both of these compared with the laces
CThomas
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Post by CThomas »

I'm confused, I thought the instep = the laces.

Or are we using instep to mean the side of the foot?
dudeman
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Post by dudeman »

common misconception that the laces = instep, but its not really true.
if you use straight on laces, youll have to turn your leg/ankel slightly and you won't get the full amount of power.
the instep si king of between your laces and side of foot. its where your bone sticks out on your foot. put your finger on your big toe joint and follow it up your foot until its like halfway up, there should be a bone sticking out kinda. thats the intsep.
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