City bid for another 'Superstar'

English football section, also known as Ratherton's hole
soccer11
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Post by soccer11 »

To be fair, Anderson was never a scorer, though it would be nice to see him notch some more goal at that money.

I wouldn't call Owen Hargreaves a flop because when you say flop i think of someone who had high expectations and failed to meet them. When he actually did play, he was very good. Let's not forget, he was essentially first choice that year over Carrick. It's a shame that he hasn't played much and I really want to see if he can be his old self when he comes back. I think it could really bring the team together.
I think having carrick and Hargreaves in the middle would be nice because it would allow Carrick to push up more and be creative.
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shahensha
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Post by shahensha »

Hargreaves shouldnt really be considered a flop to be honest. I remember him playing right-back against Barca a few years ago and on the right wing against chelsea in the final. Any player who can bring versatility to the pitch is a good purchase in my opinion.
powell
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Post by powell »

Kasaki wrote:
powell wrote:You cannot say berba ISNT a flop. You pay £30 million for that while we pay around £20 million for someone like torres. Do the math. Massive flop.

Lets not forget Owen Hargraves. Big flop at what 17-18 million. Not his fault but still a flop. Everyone knew about all his luck with injuries before, so why pay the much.
There not flops , owen was injured , not his fault , and before that was impressive hill be back to prove u wrong. Berba is playing nice football just needs to be played correctly besides that I would have bought both of them
I know it wasnt Owen Hargraves fault. Hense why in my post i put, NOT HIS FAULT BUT STILL A FLOP. and if Berba is worth £30million becvuase hes a GOOD player then Lucas is worth £15 atleast and thats just crazy talk.
ratherton
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Post by ratherton »

klc123 wrote:Schmeichel* was bought for £530,000, hardly a large ammount of money.

Cantona was £1.2m again, hardly a large ammount for a player of such quality.
Cantona was bought a few months after Blackburn paid a British record £3.3m for Alan Shearer.

Schmeichel was signed before Sky and Premier League ruined everything and the transfer record at the time was just over £2m.

In modern terms, the fees are small but at the time, they were significant amounts of money.

Just accept it - the Mancs are as guilty as anyone when it comes to throwing money around.
klc123
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Post by klc123 »

Powell you deem that hargreaves is a flop? wow. Do you actually watch football or do you just read the statistics?

1.Berbatov is not a flop, i don't understand how you've come to this conclusion, he is a brilliant player and he creates lots of goals. If you watched him play you would understand that he isn't a flop.

2.Torres was a young and not proven striker when liverpool bought him. He could have gone either way, especially by moving to the hardest league in the world, you been a liverpool "fan" should know that.

"not his fault but still a flop" wow thats one of the most moronic things ive ever heard on these forums. He was and is a magnificant midfielder and played his heart out for united, then he was injured.

Would you call Ronaldo de lima a massive flop because he has been injured twice? I must i definitely agree, one of the most talented and gifted players in history who has scored unbelieveable ammounts of goals in massive matchs is overall a flop because he had a horrific injury, he was brilliant, but he fails because he got injured, thats right isn't it? -.-

And sorry your putting LUCAS in the same league of quality as Berbatov, im seriously starting to doubt you even understand football nevermind watch it.

Ratherton, quite frankly, i don't care. Man Utd man throw money around but their by no means the worst team to do so and never have been.
Evan
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Post by Evan »

Powell you deem that hargreaves is a flop? wow. Do you actually watch football or do you just read the statistics?
Hargreaves is a flop. Have you read powell's posts ever, he knows a ton about liverpool and about footy. He is a true fan of his club, you on the other hand like Barcelona and Man u? Do you like Inter and Bayern aswell?


1.Berbatov is not a flop, i don't understand how you've come to this conclusion, he is a brilliant player and he creates lots of goals. If you watched him play you would understand that he isn't a flop.
Berbatov is a flop. He is a decent player, but not worth 30 million if he is going to perform the way he does. He is like Benzema, except Benzema is slowly getting better.


2.Torres was a young and not proven striker when liverpool bought him. He could have gone either way, especially by moving to the hardest league in the world, you been a liverpool "fan" should know that.
Torres was an unproven striker? Did you watch La Liga when he was in it, did you watch the world cup? He may have been young but 3 goals in the World Cup is no joke IMO.


"not his fault but still a flop" wow thats one of the most moronic things ive ever heard on these forums. He was and is a magnificant midfielder and played his heart out for united, then he was injured.

Would you call Ronaldo de lima a massive flop because he has been injured twice? I must i definitely agree, one of the most talented and gifted players in history who has scored unbelieveable ammounts of goals in massive matchs is overall a flop because he had a horrific injury, he was brilliant, but he fails because he got injured, thats right isn't it? -.-
How is it moronic? He has made 2 appearances over the last 2 seasons at United. Nearly 20 million for a player that has made that few appearances is what proves him to be a flop. And as previously mentioned, it wasn't his fault. but he was a flop.

And the Ronaldo comparison made me laugh. Obviously Ronaldo wasn't a flop. He was injured, but in the time he wasn't injured he was the best player in the world. Hargreaves didn't do anything close to the accomplishments of Ronaldo. That was funny...

How did he put Lucas in the same league of quality as Berba? Read his post again please. He even admitted that it was ridiculous for Lucas to be worth 15 mil.

I thought you were a Barca/Messi fan. And yet, you're a Man. U fan aswell?
On a different note everyone's pretty good with women when it comes to hookers... well except the sham-wow guy.
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powell
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Post by powell »

klc123 wrote:Powell you deem that hargreaves is a flop? wow. Do you actually watch football or do you just read the statistics?
Nope i dont watch it. I bacially shove my head in a statistic book and and read. Anyway keep your pants and kid its my VIEW.

Besides are you telling me berba is also worth £30 million?
klc123
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Post by klc123 »

Don't try to be patronising.

Yes i supported manchester united for my whole life, but when i was very young i went on a family holiday to barcelona and fell in love with the city when i was taken to a barcelona game. Every year since then ive gone to barcelona and watched a match, obviously im not the biggest fan in the world but going to a match once a year is the most i can manage living in england.

Yes i did watch la liga, but coming as a young player from spain to england could have ruined him and he might not have been as successful as he was. Look at how much of a flop kaka is at madrid moving from italy to real, same principal.



Actually its 3 appearances but thats besides the point. Considering hargreaves has been injured since his last game, the season before he was injured he joined he played 34 games, scoring twice which also happened to be his debute in a new league in what was the best team in the world at the time imo. That isn't too bad for a defensive midfielder now is it.

Now comparing him to another brilliant defensive midfielder, playing for barcelona on the exact same year, was yaya toure. with 38 appearances in total and scoring 2 goals, so between them there is only a difference of 4 games, now if your trying to say that both players are a flop then fine, i no longer want to discuss football or anything for that matter with someone so ignorant, but if you are however saying that he is not a flob because he made a measly 4 more apperances, then you seriously need to have a long hard think.

Injury does not make a player a flop, do you think eduardo is a flop for arsenal, seeing how he scored good goals when he joined but soon also had a horrific injury thats taken him out of the game completely, that makes him a flop does it?

Just don't bother replying to me on this forum because im not going to respond, i can't be bothered to waste anymore time debating insignificant things with people who are too ignorant to see past their own noses.
soccer11
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Post by soccer11 »

powell wrote:
klc123 wrote:Powell you deem that hargreaves is a flop? wow. Do you actually watch football or do you just read the statistics?
Nope i dont watch it. I bacially shove my head in a statistic book and and read. Anyway keep your pants and kid its my VIEW.

Besides are you telling me berba is also worth £30 million?
Berbatov is definitely a flop in my opinion. Had we bought him for 15 or so, then we can say he's alright.

As for Hargreaves I don't think injuries define being a flop. Without him, I don't think we would've won those championships that year. Some could even say the way he played that year we got him for a bargain. Yea ok these past 2 seasons he's been injured but that's all he's been; injured. I'd understand calling him a flop if he had one good year and these last 2 years he sucked, but as it stands, whenever he's pulled on a United jersey, he's performed.
Performance defines success and flop. Injuries just define being injury prone.
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NewBornProdigy
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Post by NewBornProdigy »

soccer11 wrote:Performance defines success and flop. Injuries just define being injury prone.
A player ain't much good if he can't play... No matter the reason
Rome_Leader
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Post by Rome_Leader »

NewBornProdigy wrote:
soccer11 wrote:Performance defines success and flop. Injuries just define being injury prone.
A player ain't much good if he can't play... No matter the reason
Correct. If you're hurt while you're young, you can't develop, and you'll never reach your full potential or get any better. Perhaps the cultured community of EF doesn't know what I mean, but all you have to say to a North American to define 'disappointment due to injury' is Ken Griffey Jr.

If you're a liability in your prime, clubs may think twice about you, or there will always be those 'what if' questions, like with Griffey. What if RVP wasn't so fragile? What might he have accomplished?

If you're hurt or show history of being hurt in your later years, unless you're a specialized superstar, you won't even be considered.
soccer11
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Post by soccer11 »

I guess what it comes down to then is how we individually define "flop" then. I don't take into consideration injuries when I define flop, but if you do that's just how you define it haha hard to argue someones definition. When I think of flops, I think of Diego Forlan at Man United, maybe Walter Samuel in his season at Real Madrid, Shevchenko at Chelsea (though some might attribute that to age,)

I definitely wouldn't consider Griffey a flop though because he's the active leader in home runs if I remember correctly. Despite injuries, he's still put together a top 10 all-time career in my opinion.
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