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*~El Maestro~*
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Post by *~El Maestro~* » 08 Jul 2006, 23:15

He's probably the best header on the ball in the world currently
yes thats true but i think vieri is slightly better than him at it.

people forgot to mention players like deco or pirlo. I think these two are very underrated and are some of the most complete midfielders along with ballack gerrard xavi and many others.

Don't forget that before barcalona got deco they hadnt won the championship yet. Players like deco and xavi help ronaldinho do what he does.
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MrSark
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Post by MrSark » 09 Jul 2006, 02:13

gnarlyjim wrote:I'd have to say that Ronaldinho is the most complete. He was the Player of the Year. and is the best player on the world's most talented team, Brazil. Although players such as Zidane and Ballack are incredible, I think Ronaldinho, with his ability to be offensive and discipline to help on defense make him complete.
Ronaldinho didn't deserve the WPoY award in 2004. Thierry has been the best player on the planet since 2003, but yet in 2003 Zidane wins the WPoY despite having one of the worst seasons of his WPoY wins. I remember when FIFA posted the voting results for the 2003 award and players like Fernando Morientes was 1st on some National Team coaches ballots over players like Henry. Henry should have had the award in 03 and 04 because he was the rock for Arsenal in 04, and had it not been for Edgar Davids arriving at Barcelona, Ronnie would have never even been considered for the award.

milanese
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Post by milanese » 09 Jul 2006, 02:26

ballackfan wrote:
milanese wrote: Ballack's never going to surpass Zizou. Maybe if he was this good at the age of 20.
Don't assume his pontential just in couple world cup games he's in because he's not completely healthy in this world cup. I can see his pontential very close to surpassing Zidane. People do not know his intelligent on the pitch, and his leadership skills. Germany got this far both this world cup and the last because of him. Do you think it is mediocre to led a young team?

Ballack don't do fancy trick on the ball but he's got some fancy mind trick of his own. His ability to shoot long range with on goal made him more like center defensive midfielder. He's probably the best header on the ball in the world currently. I know this because other people say he is and I have many compilation videos of him. Not many people watch underatted Budesliga so they only watch the highlights and don't see the whole picture of his potential. If you watch EPL then you'll see him a little more with Chelsea and you'll see how good he is. He's not signed as most paid player in the world for nothing, not because of Chelsea budget because he's Ballack.
I've seen him in more then just the world cup. Obviously he's a great player, one of the best mid's in the world, but Zizou's the best player over the last decade and one of the greatest ever. Ballack couldn't ever do that since he'll likely not play for another decade, and isn't even the best now.

Zidane could be in the top 25 all-time. Can you say the same of Ballack? No. Will we ever say the same of Ballack? No. You can't just be great to be in that class. You have to be legendary.

ballackfan
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Post by ballackfan » 09 Jul 2006, 02:39

*~El Maestro~* wrote:
He's probably the best header on the ball in the world currently
yes thats true but i think vieri is slightly better than him at it.
I never actually seen anyone so good in the air as Ballack. I'm trying to find more about Vieri heading skills but so little info. If you have video collections of Ballack, I'd bet you be amazed. I don't see any player currently in my knowledge surpassing Ballack in the air. He's just amazing!!

Here is one of the many videos- http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &q=ballack
I've seen him in more then just the world cup. Obviously he's a great player, one of the best mid's in the world, but Zizou's the best player over the last decade and one of the greatest ever. Ballack couldn't ever do that since he'll likely not play for another decade, and isn't even the best now.
I wouldn't think you'll have said this if France didn't win over Brazil.And a little trick done by Zidane :)

And it's true Zidane has a better record, I wasn't saying he's going to get best player award for decades to come. He's likely not. That's why he only contracted with CHelsea for three years, then he'd probably choose to retired. People have diferent view of what the "best" player suppose to be. I can only tell he's best playmaker, to me.
Zidane could be in the top 25 all-time. Can you say the same of Ballack? No. Will we ever say the same of Ballack? No. You can't just be great to be in that class. You have to be legendary.
Top 25? :) Isn't that a little long. Tell me top 25 legendary player. :lol:

peps1154
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Post by peps1154 » 09 Jul 2006, 03:06

Zidane is way better then Ballack will ever be. End of story. I don't think the pair of them should be mentioned in the same sentence. Sure Ballack is a great midfield general for Germany but what Zidane has done in and for football has surpassed that.

ballackfan
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Post by ballackfan » 09 Jul 2006, 03:26

peps1154 wrote:Zidane is way better then Ballack will ever be. End of story. I don't think the pair of them should be mentioned in the same sentence. Sure Ballack is a great midfield general for Germany but what Zidane has done in and for football has surpassed that
Is this your arguement? Your generalization don't proved a thing for the unknowing to believe. Still I don't know you, but I start to know you a little more. And I'm knowing you very quickly by the way you talk...

MrSark
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Post by MrSark » 09 Jul 2006, 08:25

Ballack IS NOT the best player in the world when it comes to playing in the air. From what I can see of your posts it appears you are being very biased to Ballack as your name implies because you are stating things that just aren't true.

Ballack was supposed to be this great and all ending midfield general for Bayern Munchen and in my opinion he played MUCH better when he played for Bayer Leverkusen. There is no comparison between Ballack and Zidane because the list of accomplishments speak for themself. You could break down ZZ's career at just the international level and it would surpass Ballacks accomplishments. Clubwise there is no contest because Ballack has nothing on Zidane's domestic career. Don't get me wrong, Ballack is a great midfielder, but he is not even top 5 in my opinion for attacking midfielders.

*~El Maestro~*
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Post by *~El Maestro~* » 09 Jul 2006, 12:25

I wouldn't think you'll have said this if France didn't win over Brazil.And a little trick done by Zidane

And it's true Zidane has a better record, I wasn't saying he's going to get best player award for decades to come. He's likely not. That's why he only contracted with CHelsea for three years, then he'd probably choose to retired. People have diferent view of what the "best" player suppose to be. I can only tell he's best playmaker, to me.
I haven't followed Ballack's whole career but i have to say that he is an outstanding player. He plays equally well with both feet and can score with any part of his body. Has great long passing and short passing. He is one of the most complete, and is better at defence than zidane is.

However, I still think zidane is a better player than Ballack. You say the top 25 is a little long, but i assure you that it is not easy to reach when you consider all the great players that have played before. In my opinion Ballack is a great player. He is a national hero and everything. One of the best players world wide, but Zidane is a legend. What he has done is oustanding and if you had watched that movie "Comme Dans Un Reve" I bet you would agree with me even though ballack is your favorite player.


Ballack is one of the greatest players but i dont think he has reached that status of legend that Zidane has.[/code]
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ballackfan
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Post by ballackfan » 09 Jul 2006, 16:27

MrSark wrote:Ballack IS NOT the best player in the world when it comes to playing in the air. From what I can see of your posts it appears you are being very biased to Ballack as your name implies because you are stating things that just aren't true.
All I have to state to you is that my bias come from a lot of info I have. With what I know of him I say what he is. I also knows a great deal of info about other players as well. With it I compared a lot of the players to Ballack. Never will I say Ballack is better than everyone else at everything af the comparison. So you see I say what I know, you may know more than me in some other things but I give you the credit. I stated things that are factual and public infomation, not bs opinion. Again I do not say Ballack is the best player in the air. Reads what's written in to post you'll understand.

liverpoolsupporter
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Post by liverpoolsupporter » 14 Jul 2006, 16:21

*~El Maestro~* wrote:i would say that ballack is more of a complete player than ronaldinho because he can play more defensively than ronaldinho.

he is more of a midfielder than ronaldinho cuz ronaldinho can be used as a striker too. ronaldinho plays more offensively


i would say that ballack and gerrard and zidane are some of the most complete players.
i agree

ajc
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Post by ajc » 14 Jul 2006, 22:44

I've read all the Ballack versus Zidane stuff, and what I think is that Ballack is a more complete player than Zidane, but he will not surpass Zidane's status in his career. By that I mean Zidane will be remembered for being one of the great players of all time (im not saying whether he is top 5 or top 25) but Ballack will not be mentioned in the same sentence as Zidane in 15 years.

Ballack is a fantastic midfielder, but he does not do flashy, fancy plays. I watched him orchestrate Germany's play in the world cup and he played extremely well swichting the point of attack, finding the open man, making perfect passes and sending crosses in right on players heads.

Even though those plays were just as useful as when zidane juggles over two players and scissors past another, they will never earn the same respect around the world. Individual skill is rated over technical skill. It's wrong, but that's just the way it is.

Zidane, Deco, and Ronaldinho are all offensive players nearly exclusively. However, they do help the defense in other ways. Teams are forced to man mark these players with a midfielder which often results in them playing with one striker up top. That way it still helps the team offensively and defensively.

However, if you had a team with 10 Ronaldinho's or 10 Zidane's, that team would not contend for the world cup. That's what you have to think of when you say a "complete" player. A team with 10 Ballack's or Steven Gerrard's would make a great side, which is why they are complete players.

By the way, Michael Ballack is great in the air, but what I remember most about his heading in the world cup is the chance he missed against I think Argentina. He received a perfect diagonal ball right on his head 10 yards from goal, had a great angle on the ball but headed it about 5 yards wide. Some of you probably know the play I'm talking about.

Vieri's the best header of the ball.Zidane's the best header of opponents. :lol:

Sorry for the long post. :?
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floater
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Post by floater » 17 Jul 2006, 13:06

ballack isn't that great he is overrated
his control and vision are 2nd clas compared to zidane
and he didn't lead his team in '02 WC, it was all kahn

without kahn in 02 germany would've been out a lot earlier

i think germany got lucky in this world cup just like 02, italy put them in their place
zidane is a great AMF, onr of the greatest
gerrard is the best CMF, just beautiful skills all around and great mentality
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Madridista
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Post by Madridista » 17 Jul 2006, 16:03

The most complete player today must be Ronaldinho Gaucho.

despite his bad abillity at the world cup, I Personally think he is still one of the best players in the world and the most complete player.

He has no disadvantage at all, He maybe aint the best player at each aspect but hes deffenitly at the top level at each aspect.

Hes fast, quick, smart, good vision, great dribbling abillity, scoring abillity, header, free kicks, great passing, good decision taking.

Everything.

I Think there are some better players then him but hes the most complete with no flaws at all. Zidane for the comparison lacks the speed and the 1v1 dribble ( Hes a more tactical dribbler meaning avoiding pressure etc ), and sometimes hes kinda sleepy.

I cant compare Ronaldinho to Ballack simply because i dont know him good enough.

Fehmi
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Post by Fehmi » 04 Aug 2006, 18:56

gerrard is an over all player that is amazingly non-specialized complete player

ac_milan7
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Post by ac_milan7 » 05 Aug 2006, 14:08

i honestly think ballack is sucky but henry is the most complete player as of now
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