THE DEFENDING DEBATE

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collin
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Joined: 11 May 2010, 03:45

THE DEFENDING DEBATE

Post by collin » 23 Apr 2011, 21:40

i have a quick question for you all. Was maradona really that good? was pele really that good? i watch these videos of pele and maradona dribbling and i have to say the defending is complete sh*t, these guys are diving and letting them walk through them like its nothing. If Pique was in this video he would just fu**in layed one of them out. So what is this all about, were they really good or was the defending just complete sh*t? Can you guys picture Messi if he played back then, he would be just as good probably better if he had those kind of defenders trying to take the ball from him. And not to mention the goalkeeping is so bad. It seems very slow and the defenders seem like a bunch of girls scared to take the ball away. Obviously i realize pele and maradona had tremendous skill, but how will we ever know how good they could have been if they played in todays game?

Met
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Post by Met » 23 Apr 2011, 22:43

That's why it's always difficult to compare players from different eras. Nowadays, defenders are more athletic, they've seen countless videos of that player and they know what they're gonna do when they are up against them. What has worked in the past, what didn,t. And if you are a high quality defender you back yourself to stop that player. In those days, you heard Maradona and Pele were good but you weren't sure how good they were until you realised you were chasing them back to your own goal half the match. You jump into the tackle and miss, you tried to stay with them but they somehow squirmed away or enticed you to a tackle were you are 100% sure you'll win the ball but in fact you had 0%.

Yes to a degree the defenders were bad but I think it was more of their skill, which was never seen before. nowadays, loads of tricky players but if you wait long enough, you can win the ball off them because most of them don't go anywhere but back then, you couldn't wait or else they'd get into the box where you cannot touch them.

TheBrilliance
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Post by TheBrilliance » 24 Apr 2011, 08:53

Ive put my view in a table format.

Many factors apart from defence come into play when we talk about success and goals scored etc.

Im really taking the old boys side here, but this is taking nothing away from Messi's genius.

You have to take into account the disadvantages Pele, Maradona and co encountered (more so Pele).

Pitch, ball, boot and official quality was lacking in the past. Maradona especially never really had a club he stayed with for a long time, and seem to do the lot on his own. E.g. joining a mediocre Napoli side and leading them to their only victory.

Messi is a genius, but if you consider his achievement on the world stage..literally, compared to Pele and Maradona in the World Cups is debatable. He is only 23 so there is always time to win it but he has never seemed to be the Barca Messi we all know for Argentina

If you are familiar with cricket, a common debate is would Don Bradman have a test batting average of 99.94 if he played today? You probably have no idea what I am talking about :P


PELE

PRO
- International team quality and contribution
- Weaker defence
- Club nurture

CON
- Heavier balls
- Heavier boots
- Poor pitch quality
- Less protection from officials

MARADONA

PRO
- Weaker defence

CON
- Less protection from officials
- Club movement (can be difficult to adapt to lifestyle)
- Poor pitch quality (less prevelant)

MESSI


PRO
- Great pitch condition
- Great conditioning routines
- Top boot quality
- Club nurture
- Club team quality and contribution
- Protection from officials

CON
- Stronger defence
- Opposition have better knowledge of players thanks to technology[/list]

desire10
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Posts: 689
Joined: 23 Feb 2011, 05:47

Post by desire10 » 24 Apr 2011, 23:57

TheBrilliance wrote:Ive put my view in a table format.

Many factors apart from defence come into play when we talk about success and goals scored etc.

Im really taking the old boys side here, but this is taking nothing away from Messi's genius.

You have to take into account the disadvantages Pele, Maradona and co encountered (more so Pele).

Pitch, ball, boot and official quality was lacking in the past. Maradona especially never really had a club he stayed with for a long time, and seem to do the lot on his own. E.g. joining a mediocre Napoli side and leading them to their only victory.

Messi is a genius, but if you consider his achievement on the world stage..literally, compared to Pele and Maradona in the World Cups is debatable. He is only 23 so there is always time to win it but he has never seemed to be the Barca Messi we all know for Argentina

If you are familiar with cricket, a common debate is would Don Bradman have a test batting average of 99.94 if he played today? You probably have no idea what I am talking about :P


PELE

PRO
- International team quality and contribution
- Weaker defence
- Club nurture

CON
- Heavier balls
- Heavier boots
- Poor pitch quality
- Less protection from officials

MARADONA

PRO
- Weaker defence

CON
- Less protection from officials
- Club movement (can be difficult to adapt to lifestyle)
- Poor pitch quality (less prevelant)

MESSI


PRO
- Great pitch condition
- Great conditioning routines
- Top boot quality
- Club nurture
- Club team quality and contribution
- Protection from officials

CON
- Stronger defence
- Opposition have better knowledge of players thanks to technology[/list]
Really good, factual post!

And I know what your talking about with 'The Don" haha, I'm no cricket fan but being an Australian you never stop hearing about him.
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albmi
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 13:09

Post by albmi » 27 Apr 2011, 21:34

Let's have a look at what a veteran like Maldini said about Maradona:

'He was the greatest and was respectful of everyone, regardless of whether they were top stars or an average squad player. He was repeatedly kicked around and never complained, which is a far cry from today’s strikers!'

How can you say that todays defenders are better than the defenders back in the day? Football was 10 times rougher back in the days. They would cut your feet off. I consider Maldini better than any todays defenders.

soccer11
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Location: Michigan, USA

Post by soccer11 » 28 Apr 2011, 01:48

The fact that they would cut you down is the key to why defenders are better today. If the strategy back then was to just stick out a leg and try to take them down, then all the attacker would have to do is dink the ball passed the defender to avoid the tackle and then run after it, which is what Maradona did a lot.
Seeing as how much diving there is in the game today, defenders have to skillfully take the ball. They know that at any time, the attacking player could take a dive, so they have to go for the ball every time, and even then sometimes it's not good enough.
It was definitely rougher back then, but I think defenders today are a lot better in terms of skill.
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