The Best Player In The World

Discuss and compare your favorite players
klc123
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The Best Player In The World

Post by klc123 » 11 Apr 2010, 02:06

I think Messi will go down as a legend, I don't think it's right to call any 23 a legend when they have so much of their career left to show, but I do think he will go down as a legend and if he keeps improving has a chance of been the best ever.

When Ronaldo was at his best, he was the best. 42 goals a season + more than 10 assists from a midfield player, that's extraordinary, I think the season that Ronaldo pulled that off he was the best player on the planet and the best player in the game since Ronaldinho was at his peak, although this season, Messi is getting increasingly close to that level.

Which is a shame really, Ronaldo has suffered in the last season, a combination of injury and been off form and in slightly weaker teams has resulted in him NOT been the best player on the planet any more.

Yes, you saw it, I'm eating humble pie, infact im wolfing it down. I'm fairly certain everyone knows I've practically been a Ronaldo fan-boy this whole season, and I still think at the beginning of the season I was correct.

However in the past month, Messi has had revelations in his form. The 2 hat-ricks in a week, the consistent form, the complete obliteration of Arsenal, single handedly. In my opinion he is without a doubt the best player on the planet now.

Now, who here thinks Messi, is the best player in history?

In my opinion, he is certainly not the best ever now, not by a long shot. The same thing applies to him been a legend, I don't think that he is the best in history now, nor that he is a legend, but I do think he will definitely be a legend, and certainly has as good a chance as anyone in the footballing world for been the best in history. I think he has the potential to be if he continues to improve as drastically as he has. Then again, you can say the same about Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo.

What do you guys think?

2brown347
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Post by 2brown347 » 11 Apr 2010, 02:29

I wouldn't say best ever either, or a legend yet, but he will be. I think 40 years from now people will say "Rooney was sure something for Man U and England back in the day", and "Remember when Ronaldo scored all those goals that season, it was truely something special", but I don't think either will have the legend status. I think when people talk about Messi it'll be in the same regard as Pele, Maradona, Best, Ronaldo, Zidane, etc.

Like you I think he also has a chance of becoming the best ever though, but I don't think Rooney or cr7 do (they're goal machines but they just don't have that "adkgljdgidg" that Messi has that makes you go :shock: . That's assuming he doesn't get hit on the head by a frozen ball of plane poo.

NewBornProdigy
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Post by NewBornProdigy » 11 Apr 2010, 13:18

Messi has reached the level Ronaldinho was at in 2005/2006

Only for Ronaldinho's lack of significant presence in the World Cup in 2006 he would be one of the greatest players in Brazil's history

Its very possible for Messi to achieve 'greatness' but very possible that he might just float back to reality this summer (Considering Argentina are 'a frozen block of plane poop')

But bearing in mind that Lionel will have 3 years before he reaches the age that Ronaldinho became so 'unstoppable' he might actually single-handedly carry Argentina to success in 2014 (Unless he turns to a Spanish Citizen)

But being the stand-out most influential in winning the world cup is huge, consider:

-Zidane (ripping it up in 98 and nearly doing it last time around)
-Pelé (well 58 and 62 and 70 and 74 he was out of this world)
-Ronaldo (2002, responsible for Oliver Kahn's shell shock)
-Maradona (86 I think he raped England and the World and almost repeated the feat in 94)

Its entirely possible, but very 'in the balance'
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klc123
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Post by klc123 » 11 Apr 2010, 15:16

Some people consider Ronaldo to be a legend at old trafford already for been the most prolific midfielder in premiership history.
I really don't think Messi is at the level Ronaldinho was at in his prime though...I think the only player to have come close recently was Ronaldo's golden season.

Yes been influential in a world cup is important, but you don't necessarily have to win the world cup to be considered one of the best or a legend, Cruyff and Best never lifted it but they are considered by most fans to be two of the best ever.

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Post by NewBornProdigy » 11 Apr 2010, 17:39

klc123 wrote:Some people consider Ronaldo to be a legend at old trafford already for been the most prolific midfielder in premiership history.
Some say the same about Henry at Arsenal, hell some say the same about Alan Shearer at Newcastle... Its global recognition that makes you a great
klc123 wrote:I really don't think Messi is at the level Ronaldinho was at in his prime though...I think the only player to have come close recently was Ronaldo's golden season.
Messi has as many goals as ronaldo did that season and more assists...

Ronaldo Stats
Messi Stats

I watched Ronaldo that season, and he had a huge wow factor about him, but Messi is just something else, something special, like dinho was

Oh and he is defintely at that level, the champions leauge finals should show that
klc123 wrote:Yes been influential in a world cup is important, but you don't necessarily have to win the world cup to be considered one of the best or a legend, Cruyff and Best never lifted it but they are considered by most fans to be two of the best ever.
Most people is a bit exaggerated without a little bit of proof

Infact the vast majority think Maradona and Pelé are and George Best was more a good player in a sh*t leauge (not saying its true)

And Cruyff was massively influential in Hollad's Total Football World Cup where they lost in the final to Germany

But they are up there cause they stand out... Like Messi is doing right now, exactly like Dinho did 5 years ago
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klc123
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Post by klc123 » 11 Apr 2010, 21:42

I'm not saying Best and Cruyff were the best ever above everyone, but surely you agree most people would consider them to be amongst the greatest in history?

If not, then I dread to think what you consider good, because they were sublime and I think they deserve credit for how good they are.

To me, it gets to a point where whoever is best is impossible to tell, because all the players up there are at such a high level, and are so different, comparisons become blurred and unfair.

Yes Messi has more goals and assists, but he also doesn't play in the same position or in the same team as Ronaldo.

I have been naive in the past using only statistics to compare players, and I happily admit that, everyone makes mistakes, but looking at things properly, it's not correct to judge two different players like that. You can argue that Messi is in a much stronger team than Ronaldo ever was, that might not be true but I think its a fair statement when you consider how much manchester united was a one man show that season and how much barcelona have improved in the last few seasons.

Agree?

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Post by Anymi » 13 Apr 2010, 22:13

klc123 wrote:I'm not saying Best and Cruyff were the best ever above everyone, but surely you agree most people would consider them to be amongst the greatest in history?

If not, then I dread to think what you consider good, because they were sublime and I think they deserve credit for how good they are.

To me, it gets to a point where whoever is best is impossible to tell, because all the players up there are at such a high level, and are so different, comparisons become blurred and unfair.

Yes Messi has more goals and assists, but he also doesn't play in the same position or in the same team as Ronaldo.

I have been naive in the past using only statistics to compare players, and I happily admit that, everyone makes mistakes, but looking at things properly, it's not correct to judge two different players like that. You can argue that Messi is in a much stronger team than Ronaldo ever was, that might not be true but I think its a fair statement when you consider how much manchester united was a one man show that season and how much barcelona have improved in the last few seasons.

Agree?
I dont hear Best enough when i comes to being the best player ever. Probably because the World Cup stage was never lit up by him (or Ireland in that matter)

The people everyone mentions today as the greatest players ever are:
Cruyff
Maradona
Zidane
Pele

The comes your Di Stefanos, Bests etc who failed to light up the World Cup stage or internationally.

For Messi, Cronaldo etc to get up to standard with some of the top guys have got to deliver a bit more at World Cups as such.

I have something id like to add. I feel that if every current no matter how off form is playing at their peak...i feel Messi is number 3 or 4 on this specific list.
My list is bias as piss but its what i believe.

4. Messi
3. Christiano Ronaldo
2. Ronaldo
1. Gerrard

Ronaldinho pushes aswell. I feel that these current players no matter how out of shape (Ronaldo) were playing at their greatest they push Messi off the peak. I think Stevie G is the most unstoppable player on every corner of the pitch when hes up for it.

......Illll show myself out

Anymi
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Post by Anymi » 13 Apr 2010, 22:18

NewBornProdigy wrote:
klc123 wrote:Some people consider Ronaldo to be a legend at old trafford already for been the most prolific midfielder in premiership history.
Some say the same about Henry at Arsenal, hell some say the same about Alan Shearer at Newcastle... Its global recognition that makes you a great
Great point by the way. If Alan Shearer was playing for a "beautiful team" that the world instantly symbolises as the team for fans, the best team he wouldve been known as greater.

If he did a Gary Lineker and went to Barca or something that wouldve been huge for his career if he prospered. I liked Alan and what he did but...great player.

The amount of people i see walking around in Barca or Real strips here in Aus is unbeliveable and these people dont know anything about football. They are just examples of the "teams associated with football". You play for some of these teams and you get bigger global recognition

2brown347
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Post by 2brown347 » 13 Apr 2010, 22:44

I may be mistaken but I remember a lot of soccer experts comparing the 06-09 Man U team to Pele's Brazil. Not saying they were right but they weren't any worse than this Barca.

bluemm
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Re: The Best Player In The World

Post by bluemm » 15 Apr 2010, 15:25

klc123 wrote:I think Messi will go down as a legend, I don't think it's right to call any 23 a legend when they have so much of their career left to show, but I do think he will go down as a legend and if he keeps improving has a chance of been the best ever.

When Ronaldo was at his best, he was the best. 42 goals a season + more than 10 assists from a midfield player, that's extraordinary, I think the season that Ronaldo pulled that off he was the best player on the planet and the best player in the game since Ronaldinho was at his peak, although this season, Messi is getting increasingly close to that level.

Which is a shame really, Ronaldo has suffered in the last season, a combination of injury and been off form and in slightly weaker teams has resulted in him NOT been the best player on the planet any more.

Yes, you saw it, I'm eating humble pie, infact im wolfing it down. I'm fairly certain everyone knows I've practically been a Ronaldo fan-boy this whole season, and I still think at the beginning of the season I was correct.

However in the past month, Messi has had revelations in his form. The 2 hat-ricks in a week, the consistent form, the complete obliteration of Arsenal, single handedly. In my opinion he is without a doubt the best player on the planet now.

Now, who here thinks Messi, is the best player in history?

In my opinion, he is certainly not the best ever now, not by a long shot. The same thing applies to him been a legend, I don't think that he is the best in history now, nor that he is a legend, but I do think he will definitely be a legend, and certainly has as good a chance as anyone in the footballing world for been the best in history. I think he has the potential to be if he continues to improve as drastically as he has. Then again, you can say the same about Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo.

What do you guys think?
I like Messi best because he plays more teamworking than Ronaldo and at the moment he is the best striker
Torres is also one of my favourist player

2brown347
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Post by 2brown347 » 15 Apr 2010, 16:54

Has anyone noticed that Drogba has been fairly under the radar this year. He's only 1 goal behind Rooney in league, and 2 in all competition and could easily pass Rooney. He also has 8 assist compared to Rooney's 3. I think the fact that Rooney's finally getting the numbers that people expect of him he's getting more praise then in reality he really deserves (in terms of being best player active/ in the EPL.

Hell I watch quite a bit of Chelsea games or the highlights at the least and I though Drogba had like 15 goals, really he could very likely end up top scorer.

panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 15 Apr 2010, 21:02

Rooney was getting the praise because he was having a spectacular season till he injured his ankle.. Theres no doubt about that, he had like 5 more goals than games when the game he injured himself in Munchen..

And Fergie's plan for Rooney weren't for him to be the main goal scorer of Man U, until this season, so he always did his work.. Before, he was a "workhorse" that had to run like a mofo, and fight for all the balls to assist Ronaldo, Vanisterlooy, whoever it be.. He was never the main striker target man that Ferguson made him be this season... With the Ronaldo and Tevez bail, Ferguson tactically shifted Rooney to be central forward, which resulted in Man U basically playing for him, and thats when he responded.. He did his job this season, the same way he did his job the other seasons, which was to get 15-20 goals, and assist and set up other players for the goal, while hustling, sliding, pressuring the defense etc..

I don't know about you, but in my opinion Drogba's getting all the praise he needs, people still talk about him, and he's still considered a good striker.

Premier League:
Rooney 26 goals in 29 matches
Drogba 25 goals in 28 matches

UCL:
Rooney 5 goals in 6 matches
Drogba 3 goals in 5 matches

Rooney is getting the praise cause he's doing the job, and he was the best striker in England with the best numbers.. Fact, the same reason Messi get's the praise in Spain, and Di Natale gets the praise in Italy, you praise players that are doing well.. And usually haters bring up excuses like "Rooney is getting the praise cause he finally getting the numbers".. People bitched enough about his past, now that he's doing good in the present, you still wanna bitch about how he didn't get the work done in the past, when actually he did, and also who the fu** cares, we're in 2010 baby..

Just saying.. Maybe now that Rooney's out drogba will pass him, and I'll be happy if that happens, cause I ain't a unfair person, and I recognize who's playing well and who's getting the goals in, but to criticize 1 thing from Rooney's season this year, is, exactly the opposite. HATERS
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Post by shahensha » 15 Apr 2010, 22:29

Drogba is always a threatening finisher, which is why I am dubbing ivory coast to advance along with Brazil over Portugal. It will be hilarious to see Cristiano diva Ronaldo throw some tantrums due to an early exit. Dats right, im a hater.
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2brown347
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Post by 2brown347 » 15 Apr 2010, 22:51

panchester07 wrote:Rooney was getting the praise because he was having a spectacular season till he injured his ankle.. Theres no doubt about that, he had like 5 more goals than games when the game he injured himself in Munchen..

And Fergie's plan for Rooney weren't for him to be the main goal scorer of Man U, until this season, so he always did his work.. Before, he was a "workhorse" that had to run like a mofo, and fight for all the balls to assist Ronaldo, Vanisterlooy, whoever it be.. He was never the main striker target man that Ferguson made him be this season... With the Ronaldo and Tevez bail, Ferguson tactically shifted Rooney to be central forward, which resulted in Man U basically playing for him, and thats when he responded.. He did his job this season, the same way he did his job the other seasons, which was to get 15-20 goals, and assist and set up other players for the goal, while hustling, sliding, pressuring the defense etc..

I don't know about you, but in my opinion Drogba's getting all the praise he needs, people still talk about him, and he's still considered a good striker.

Premier League:
Rooney 26 goals in 29 matches
Drogba 25 goals in 28 matches

UCL:
Rooney 5 goals in 6 matches
Drogba 3 goals in 5 matches

Rooney is getting the praise cause he's doing the job, and he was the best striker in England with the best numbers.. Fact, the same reason Messi get's the praise in Spain, and Di Natale gets the praise in Italy, you praise players that are doing well.. And usually haters bring up excuses like "Rooney is getting the praise cause he finally getting the numbers".. People bitched enough about his past, now that he's doing good in the present, you still wanna bitch about how he didn't get the work done in the past, when actually he did, and also who the fu** cares, we're in 2010 baby..

Just saying.. Maybe now that Rooney's out drogba will pass him, and I'll be happy if that happens, cause I ain't a unfair person, and I recognize who's playing well and who's getting the goals in, but to criticize 1 thing from Rooney's season this year, is, exactly the opposite. HATERS
No offense Panchester but you can be the biggest fucktard on the internet sometimes. Take this:
Image
and reread what I said. There was no "hating" or even anything controversal or hostile. I'll list everything seperate so you don't have to struggle comprehending meaning in a paragraph.

1) As a striker Rooney's main critism has always been that he didn't get the numbers. If you've ever paid bothered to learn my opinion on him you'd know I've said many times that the reason he didn't pull in heaps of goals in past seasons was because he had to do cr7's job in mid-field aswell

2) Even if you take away Rooney's injury him and Drogba are about equal in everything. That said Rooney has gotten far more praise this season than Drogba has. All I was saying is Drogba's been under the radar in comparision to most season.

3) Messi's praise doesn't just come from goals, it's just as much from the briliant moments he produces on the field. He's one of the few players who can walk out of a game with no goals or assist and still be the most talked about player of that game.




I'd agree Hen, I can't see Portugal getting past the Ivory Coast.

klc123
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Post by klc123 » 16 Apr 2010, 00:09

Before you start sending accusations like that brown, I think you should take one of those pills yourself.

The whole of panchester's post was relevant in my opinion and was calm and composed, he didn't stray off topic and he definitely didn't act hostile to you or anyone else so don't try and play that card, because if that's your idea of hostile then i really wonder how you go outside...

The only time in the whole post he even hinted you's were been "haterz" was when he said "HATERZ" at the very end. The fact that you picked up on this and then deemed the whole post as an hostile attack is ridiculous.

As for you panchester, chilling out a bit may help, just think this to yourself, why do you give a sh*t if brown, nor anyone else for that matter, disagrees with you? Your entitled to your opinion, neither of you are correct, insulting eachothers opinions and bickering like little girls however is immature and out of the question, i'm not saying that your been immature, but the "debate" going on between you guys is on borderline. That point goes for all of you, grow up and chill out a bit.

I know this is the big sh*t of all irony hearing this from me, but doesn't that itself highlight how pathetic it is if me of all people is giving the slap on the wrist?

Back on topic, i think Rooney has much more aspects to his game than Drogba, he is faster, stronger and works much harder. Drogba however is very good at free kicks.

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