Players to Watch

[shahensha]

hahaha oh wow...

aight, find the post where I supported maradona and then all of a sudden went back on him. If you do, I am a sh*t-head. If you dont...........seriously......stop making sh*t up. I swear to god, if you take things out of context, I am going to delete this account. EF is not the same anymore.

"son face the facts"? hahahaha what facts? you are just giving me random speculations that the media loves to throw out there....ofcourse Zidane didnt need a xavi or iniesta numbnuts, he provided the role of xavi and iniesta. Besides why is messi, a forward, being compared to zidane, a midfielder? Shouldnt he be compared to another forward like Cronaldo, whose goal ratio 22 in 68, is pretty much the same as Messi's?

Can you get your head out of your ass and actually think by yourself for a moment here. The media is retarded. Then argentinian fans are even more retarded. The way you speak, I doubt you have actually seen messi play in the world cup and copa and just regurgitating what the media usually says.

Its really irritating how the argentinians have to scrutinize him even though he actually wants to wear the blue and white. Then again, anyone who would support the selection of Maradona isnt really that bright to begin with.........Hell his criticisms have nothing to do with his technique and lmao at number 2.....he walks back for barcelona too. Dont all forwards just walk back when they lose the ball? Give me an example of someone who doesnt.........yeah someone other than rooney.

You do realize many of the top players of professional football took part in the olympics right? Anyways, Messi actually got into a heated clash with Barcelona because he wanted to represent argentina in the olympics no matter what. Barcelona wanted him to stay for the pre-season. He left when Barcelona didnt even give him permission. Are you telling me, a man who defies his own employers to play for his motherland, has no passion for his colours? Seriously its simple logic here panchester......show me you have that atleast.

Also, I thought Argentina hated Riquelme for turning his back on the national team.......hahaha so they hate Messi to the point that Riquelme who deserted them is appreciated more than Messi. Damn Panchester, thanks for pointing out how stupid argentinians are.

Sarcasm aside, you are misinformed. Messi never scored a hat-trick in the bernabeu so seriously just stop arguing and shut the fu** up. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Make that same comment when an actual coach is in charge of argentina and then I wont regard it as idiotic.

[Wanderer]

OK calm down guys no need for this. Panchester try channeling your aggresion to on the footy field not towards ppl.

[panchester07]

Ok whatever, Why do you get so sentimental anyway, if you feel like leaving EF, because two people dont agree on something then go ahead and bounce, noone is stopping you..
this "debate" started because i said Messi was a huge dissapointment with argentina. Theres no way you can argue this, its absolutely true. With or without reason, the whole nation of Argentina put their hopes on messi, in 2008 - 2009 after Beijing, the guarantee the qualificiation to South Africa 2010. They didnt ask for messi to perform at the exact same level as he does in Barca, they can understand that he trains allyear with them, and grew up with them, they just needed him to be an important player, a 10 like his T-shirt says so, and help argentina make it through. After all its his national team and if he sweats the Barca shirt i should bleed for Argentina. Atleast thats the culture, and whats expected of him.

After all, he won the champions league, and destroyed the Spanish league, and won the copa del rey, the super cup, do i have to continue?

The people of argentina are dissapointed in him because they feel that even though he is the clear star with barcelona, in argentina he is far from it.
The major competitions have been very regular for him nothing extraordinary. The olympics, okay, arguable, the U-20, not really enough, he was a star while all the other ones war raw diamonds. the copa america, good, but still miles away from barca performance.

In Argentina the most he did was a few good goals, as a SECONDARY player, not taking the role of play maker and goal scorer, he was always an option, not the priority, not the 10, but the.. 18 or 19 maybe. The man incharge was always riquelme, or others, never him, he was just a gay that played good that could receive it everynow and score, like he did 12 times, in 36 games.

Rivaldo, ronaldinho, Zidane, KAKA, FIgo Ronaldo 9. Where all super cracks, that could play easily at the same level everywhere they went. Messi, in argentinas and mine opinion, can only play with certain players, in certain conditions, positions, with a certain coach. This is why they are dissapointed. Everybody is saying "he has less argentinian blood than a hamburger so dont expect much from him, because he wont do much" This is why they are dissapointed. He lacks leadership and honestly with comparing Barcas messi, and Arg Messi anyone would notice the difference.

In the world cup qualification he had "smal fllares" of good plays like the okay pass to Higuain that Uruguays keep intercepted.

Even today that barca lost you could see a better playing messi, he dribbled to two or three and lost it, he gave a brilliant header pass to Ibrahimovic, he cut one and shot a powerful shot that had to be saved by the keep. He did this twice, he would run, receive it pass it back, dribble, shoot pass, he was simply being messi even in a barca loss.

He never was the shadow of Barcas messi in argentina, this is why they are dissapointed. This is why he is dissapointing.

Uruguay, Brasil, Colombia, Peru, controlled messi completely, this is why they are dissapointed in messi.

All argentinians want to be able to say, Messi's argentina so and so. Like barcelona fans can. But no he is just one more player in argentina, maybe at times doesnt even deserve to be a starter.

In barcelona he wins three championships, is in way to the golden ball, Fifa player of the year etc. But with argentina he bearly scratches the ball, against uruguay it was another gray performance and thats way to many lately.

He is two different players. 1) A clear star with barcelona, goal scorer, play maker, he can break any defense with 1 and 2 touches. 2) A sh*tty player with argentina (this last year ATLEAST) that barely touches the ball, struggles to complete passes.

After comparing his face after a barcelona game and an argentina game you can see his whole problem, he is obviosly not satisfied with his own performances, you say a worried messi, not at all happy, because he himself knows that hes not half of what he is with barca

In simple terms, why he is the biggest dissapointment:
Look at his achievments:
In la Liga 2008-2009. 27 starts, 4 sub ins, 23 goals.
In the champs, 10 starts, 2 sub ins 9 goals.
Copa del Rey 4 starts 4 sub ins, 6 goals.
38 goals, 3 championships, and a magnificent season.

In the 18 games he played with Argentina in the qualifiers he scored 4 goals. Argentina barely qualified, and he started every game. He was lost 75% of the time.

This is why, he is the biggest dissapointment with a national team right now. Enough said, I cant make it any easier, if you want me to color it for you just let me know.

[Evan]

Shahensha, don't leave mate. You're a great poster and a respected forum member. This kid is just stirring up sh*t with you because his opinion is different. Let him enjoy being a kid with remarks like "face the facts son" (LOL that's hilarious) and don't worry about it. Messi is not a disappointment to Argentina, look at what he's won already as Shahensha said.

[2brown347]

EF is not the same anymore

Amen brother...

[mr_dude]

First of all, why is there an unrelated argument?
Second, at Barca Messi isn't the only threat. If you focus all your defending on Messi, you still have Ibrahimovic, Henry, Xavi, Iniesta, and Alves to worry about, so Messi has to be given space because otherwise the other guys will have too much space. With Argentina's current team, who's the other threat? Maradona can be blamed because he's putting too much hope on Messi and picking random players to partner him, but that means shutting down Messi will shut down the entire team, so other teams exploit that.

[casar22]

I'm sorry guys but I have to agree with panchester07 in this one, Messi is nothing without Iniesta or Xavi but lets not be mistaken by saying he sucks because remember he's only 22 years old

[shahensha]

hah yo panchester, the only difference here is that you are looking at the smaller picture while I am trying to enlarge it.

Messi has been a disappointment in 08-09, which randomly coincides with the time Maradona has been in charge of Argentina....woah hmm i didnt really see that connection there for a second. quite sneaky.

Meanwhile on the league level, messi destroys defences during the same year which again randomly coincides with the time Pep has been in charge of Barcelona...huh? these connections are all over the place.

You say that Messi plays really well with Barcelona. That is because he has a competent coach, who knows how to create team chemistry. Messi knows where his teammates run and pass, mostly because he has played with them for a long time under proper guidance from Pep.

On the other hand, to put it in very simple terms, Maradona has gone through approximately 70 players during his tenure as coach and Messi has started all games under Maradona. Thus I wonder, how is this fellow going to remember the actions and footballing behaviour of majority of these players well enough to connect with them? I mean he is a footballer not a scientist. Also, how can there be team chemistry when the coach doesnt even know what players to choose?

Messi has been performing under Peckerman and mostly Basile. They were experienced coaches. If they chill together, they both will simply rag on Maradona calling him a noob.

If Argentina wants the real Messi, give him an intelligent coach who can actually pick a team and has skills to manage it not someone who merely won it in a popularity contest.

[panchester07]

Shahensha, don't leave mate. You're a great poster and a respected forum member. This kid is just stirring up sh*t with you because his opinion is different. Let him enjoy being a kid with remarks like "face the facts son" (LOL that's hilarious) and don't worry about it. Messi is not a disappointment to Argentina, look at what he's won already as Shahensha said.

DUDE SORRY, BUT IS YOUR FIRST NAME DICK AND YOUR LAST NAME SUCKER. YOU ARE SO DUMB, i clearly pointed it out, you dont have anything to do with this, who the hell called you to participate in this, i just posted a fair argument. i stayed on topic until there was a disagreement, that i later explained, why I believed what i said.. yes there was a debate but it always stayed composed, no one needs cheerleaders here, if you have anything to say about it say it, : i think messi isnt a dissapointment because so and so.. Evan if you think everyone is gonna have the same damn opinion then your the one that should go suck a d**k like maradona said.And how did i exactly stir up sh*t? I said he was a dissapointment, and i provided my reasons thats all. Whatever your team is, whichever team you support, you can notice the difference, and thats all MY POINT WAS, he doesnt play at the same level. Do i not have a valid point. MAYbE ITS MARADONAS FAULT. But i made the statement that messi lowers his level and i said the reasons why i believe this..

Shahensa.. its all good? i mean cant to people have different points of viewws? Thats what a forum is about we are men, not sissys, not emo. We wont get all bitchy about a simple thing.. Hey i took to FAR fine I did, I believe what i believe, you believe what you believe. You stated your reasons i stated mine, some people agree with you, others with me, im dropping it. Sorry if i insulted you, as when i read back i said a few things i shouldnt have, i meant not to disrespected you. I learnt from you, and maybe you learnt from me maybe not.

PS: The so called face the facts things, not an excuse but english i my 3 language, so maybe it didnt mean to you what it meant to me.. But i posted the statistics a few hours ago, and they are clear, and thats what i meant by face the facts, i should have probably said: do the math, or check the stats.

[shahensha]

woah see panchester, thats exactly what I am talking about. Easy with the aggression here. Thats the main thing that bothers people. Its not the disagreements at all. Everyone disagrees about some points. I have had plenty friendly arguments here but ones with you are not that same

you prolly say the same things we say but your tone is very different not casual or one of jest.

I didnt make that comment because we disagree. I made that comment because you implied I supposedly said that I supported maradona. Just like the previous argument, you were making up stuff and saying that I was the one who invented it instead. It really irks a person and bring the whole buzz down.

Besides, relax. No lie but 90% of the posts i have have been under the influence of weed. So no worries, i am always chillin

[nick117]

you smoke weed way too much that's kinda sad. on a related note i was seriously dissapointed watching messi vs brazil.

[Evan]

DUDE SORRY, BUT IS YOUR FIRST NAME DICK AND YOUR LAST NAME SUCKER. YOU ARE SO DUMB

Haha woah now...Maybe I shouldn't have posted but I don't believe that Messi is a disappointment. I was backing shahensha up because I feel the same way, and he is a great poster on here, a good person to discuss La Liga with so I wouldn't want him to leave these forums.

Calling me a d**k sucker etc. is way over the top especially with the caps (your post made me laugh), so calm down kid.

[powell]

Everyone is entiltied to their own opinion. You call call them names becuase they dont agree with what you say, thanks just pathetic.

Panchester, you said there was a debate but it always stayed composed. So what are you doing now?

[soccer11]

Yea I agree. I think it's great that you guys are posting your different view points. It's great to see a really good debate on here, just try not to insult each others intelligence. We all have our opinions on the topic and by calling each other names, you're kind of putting off others from putting out their own opinions.

[KoNJa04]

Yea I agree. I think it's great that you guys are posting your different view points. It's great to see a really good debate on here, just try not to insult each others intelligence. We all have our opinions on the topic and by calling each other names, you're kind of putting off others from putting out their own opinions.

Hey bud what up, always playing peace maker haha, havent been on the forum in a while, gunna try to get more active. Sorry everyone else that im kinda going off topic, but jules txt me on how soccer is, we made it to district finals (we got a really lucky draw), i got golden boot with 11 goals (yeah i know not a big number, but i play defense so im all good), and we had a losing record at 9-11-1, but what the hell what do u expect with coach Bernie Turner, fu** him man i got in to so many fights with him this year it aint even funny, btw did u hear that Dustin Salliote hasn't even played a game for Adrian because they called Bernie up and he told them that "he has a bad attitude", i guess this is the reason why Jon Evans isn't playing much at Oakland.

Sorry again guys for going off topic, old friend that i know personally, ill see all you around more.





On another note, i think a great defender is John Terry...
- Leadership
- Positioning
- Not afraid to tackle
- and a great scorer with his heading ability.
- also he is very consistent (other than Champions League final..)