Argentina 4 - Spain 1

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panchester07
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Argentina 4 - Spain 1

Post by panchester07 » 08 Sep 2010, 16:16

What are you're opinions on this? Argentina waked over Spain yesterday in el monumental, buenos aires. Lio, Higuian, Tevez and Aguero scored for Argentina, for Spain, Llorente did.. Argentina had a few more dangerous plays than Spain, but to be fair Spain hit the post 3 times. Villa shot from way out when he had been getting closed for 15 minutes by the Argie defense, and hit the corner of the post. Then, it was another freekick by Villa, that hit the wall and then the left post. Lastly, in the closing minutes Cazorla shot a good but centered shot that Romero tapped and hit the upright .... Higuian missed a clear 1 on 1 ...

The result lies a bit, maybe 4-1 is over the top, Spain didn't play to their fullest, but still Argentina deserves lots of merits for defeating the World Champions 4-1, less than 2 month after they lifted the trophy. Argentina played with Cambiasso, Zanetti, Banega, and Mascherano, and pretty much covered up for their lack of midfield defense that they'd been showing in the world cup. Messi played much more uptop, and was deadly and showed 3-4 plays in which he would leave men in the way Barcelona style. Argentina was better than Spain yesterday.

http://www.footytube.com/video/argentin ... ep07-55501

Opinions?

I didn't like how periods of times Argentina abused the horizontal and safe passing. In spite of winning 4-1, they would pass the ball back, and side to side with no verticality. When attacking many times it would be Messi, Higuain and Tevez vs the whole Spanish midfield and defense. Also, I noticed Argentinians complicate themselves at times when they shouldn't. For example, Cambiasso has the ball, and Mascherano is unmarked 15 yards away. Instead of giving him a steady on the ground pass, Cambiasso would lob it to him in the air, making it harder to control, and risking the possesion... I prefer and think is more logical to play with a German, Spanish or English style, with good steady on the ground passes and unmarking yourself quickly. I don't know why if you have a perfect open man you have to risk loosing the ball and send him a long ball in the air from the wing, to the middle of the field.... I guess its after watching so much European football that I was like "wtf are you doing??, its so much easier to play it on the ground and unmark yourself quickly".... Anyway, Argentina played with theirstyle and won 4-1 so who am I to criticize?
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2brown347
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Post by 2brown347 » 08 Sep 2010, 18:33

I think it says more about Spain being a little over-rated than Argentina not being good. Everyone knew that Zanetti and Cambiasso being gone really hurt the team in the WC, but IMO what it really shows is that if a good team just comes out and plays with Spain than Spain is very beatable. If Argentina would have sat back the score would have likely been more like 0-1.

Met
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Re: Argentina 4 - Spain 1

Post by Met » 08 Sep 2010, 19:13

I didn't like how periods of times Argentina abused the horizontal and safe passing. In spite of winning 4-1, they would pass the ball back, and side to side with no verticality.
It's called taking the sting out of the game. Lose possession to Spain, even though it was a slightly weakened team, they will still punish you.
Also, I noticed Argentinians complicate themselves at times when they shouldn't.
Mate, this is the annoying thing about football. Even people at my level would rather boot it long than play a few short high pace passes. Football was made to be simple. People just over complicate things. It's football ffs! Not in-in-the-air-ball!

Anyway, I felt the game meant more to Argentina than it did Spain. I would say the biggest problems was the Spain defence was too square. I would think that Pique would know better as his bud loves when defenders do that. Pepe had an unusual performance. Ball retention wasn't as good for some reason. I was expecting Spain to hold possession more and Argentina get them on the counter attack. I feel sorry for Messi, as this was a type of performance from the rest of team he needed in the Germany game. There, it was 4 defenders and Masch defending and 4 attackers and Messi. However in this game, there was more unity in the team. We can't read too much into the result as it's mostly individual mistakes and brilliance that caused it rather than one team being dominant for most periods of a game.

panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 08 Sep 2010, 20:38

No brown, Spain aren't overrated, they are the best team in the world well deservedly. Champions of Europe, and Champions of the world. If it was a coincidence that they won the European finals, then they shut mouthes and silenced critics by winning the world cup of the word... Its 6 matches under the highest pressure that they won and outplayed their rivals. And then, 7 in the world cup. They aren't overrated, they are simply the best... The Wolrd Champions aren't ever overrated. They won and won well... beating european and south american sides... but i respect your opinion

Yesterday they didn't play so well, without they're complete lineup, and they faced an Argentina that wanted to shine and win.

What the game is suppose to say. Is that Argentina, with a more complete squad, and with a decent coach, can beat and match the best teams in the world, because they are one of them. The game is suppose to say that a complete Argentina, with a good manager, can beat the best team, the deserved world champions. That the 4-0 vs germany was merely, Maradona's tactical incompetence fault, and that Argentina will soon be back to being, top 5 teams of the world.


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It's called taking the sting out of the game. Lose possession to Spain, even though it was a slightly weakened team, they will still punish you.
Could be... Hadn't looked at it that way.. Still, England, Spain, Germany do that by attacking, Argentina for periods did that by giving horizontal passes back and forth and some useless passes backwards.... But yeah I get what you mean.....Just think that sometimes, like, if they pushed it foward something interesting could have happened, you have Messi, Tevez, Higuian, in the field...

The long balls things suffocate me too.. When playing fifa I always make fun of my best friend, cause the idiot always tries stupid long balls... Every now and then, its smart and good, but its everynow and then, not every other time... Theres sometimes that your striker is sprinting and a long ball with precision would be deadly, or one of those switches from flank to flank Zizou used to do... exelllent!! Those dinho through balls on the air are brilliant.. But a 15 yard pass, where you can play the ball on the floor and it would be better for everybody, you just have to do that. Its whats best for the team, and I don't think winning and playing smart is boring at all. I enjoy making a good pass that benefits my team.

and yeah, the team was only slightly weakened.... inspite of capdevila, puyol and torres everybody else played........ xavi, iniesta, silva, pique, villa, cesc, navas, pedro, and the rest.
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2brown347
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Post by 2brown347 » 08 Sep 2010, 22:09

I assumed you'd figure it out panchester but I'll clarify what I meant I guess. By over-rated I wasn't saying they don't deserve what they've accomplished in recent years, what I meant was that other teams look at them as unbeatable and instead of playing them outright they try to defend. On the rare occasion a team does play them outright the games tend to go against Spain or at bare minimum aren't near as one sided as Spain's WC games. So in case there is still confusion by over-rated I was not talking about their accomplishments, I was talking about the Ora of fear that teams have when they play them. They're a very beatable team if both teams play football.

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Post by shahensha » 08 Sep 2010, 23:20

I loved how all the strikers scored and they were set up by a CM...........learn something from this Maradona, you foolish manager. No matter how great a front line is, its useless without a good creator/midfield maestro making decisive throughballs for them...

I heard the Argentinian coach wants to emulate the brand of football played by Barcelona. Simple pass and go movement. Attack, attack, attack and most importantly....team stability....especially in midfield. Thats amazing news for Argentina because its a system Messi is totally adapted to by now.

Also and this is pure speculation but the score would not have been a blow-out if Puyol and Casillas played. Pique is a smart defender and all but his speed is slow. Besides Puyol can read an attack from a mile away. As for Casillas....need I say more?
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panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 09 Sep 2010, 00:10

haha yeah.. I think all teams in the present have to recognize the importance of a solid midfieldd if they want to get anywhere... Times have changed, a star wont win you a game anymore, I don't know if it ever was that way, but now if you don't have atleast 2 good passers and "motors" its useless to have all the talent in the attack. Best example: Argentina in the world cup....Banega still didn't convince me, Cambiasso did pretty well but he's not a proper motor, but atleast they had a much more solid and stable midfield and good passers to move the game around.

Something that seems so "common sense" to me, seems to be the nations biggest lack.

Brown, im pretty sure the best coaches in the world, like Lowe, Van Marwick and co, aren't stupid enough to overrate a rival..No offense..
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shahensha
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Post by shahensha » 09 Sep 2010, 00:31

exactly, it should be common sense for any coach that the team that controls the midfield, has the better chances of winning the game.

Banega is still very young and finally getting some regular time since he moved to Atletico from Valencia (although not enough to become world class right away). Didnt see the friendly but watching him play for los che and the mattress makers now, I find him to be a Riquelme type of player. Very slow and calculating but with the calmness, vision and control that shows a great deal of potential. If all things go well for him, he may become the decicive creator Argentina has been missing since Riquelme.
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2brown347
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Post by 2brown347 » 09 Sep 2010, 00:45

Brown, im pretty sure the best coaches in the world, like Lowe, Van Marwick and co, aren't stupid enough to overrate a rival..No offense..
If you watched their teams play against every other team then compare it to how they played Spain (not the scores or how well Spain did, how their teams approached the game) then you'd know that is not the case.

Pichichi
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Post by Pichichi » 10 Sep 2010, 20:03

I watched this game and the thing I loved about how Argentina attacked was they didn't really beat around the bush. Spain's attack is very possessive and personally I think it's anti football. Teach 11 players how to possess like masters and that's what they'll do. Very good teams play Spain and fail to make an impact because one, they never get the ball. Two, when Spain doesn't have the ball they will move 11 players behind the ball and defend very well. Just prodding around is very boring and doesn't have any excitement beyond the tactical view point or the occasional flick or trick.

Just kind of going off, but I like teams like Argentina that can attack and just penetrate without going side to side 20 times before getting a shot off. Well done Argentina and I hope they reach their real potential now with a manager who's a bit more in the know.

klc123
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Post by klc123 » 11 Sep 2010, 00:29

It ain't as exciting as end to end counter attacking football that you see quite often in the EPL, but it's definitely better than the "hoof" ball tactics you see a lot of lower teams do in the English game.

Tactically, it is the best tactic, and ultimately teams would prefer to win and play boring than try to play brilliantly and lose.

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