WC Final

ratherton · Post by **ratherton** » 14 Jul 2010, 14:41

ScottyBoy wrote:Blaming the ref is just silly. The only people responsible for the quality of the match are the players. They are the ones who make it good or bad. They made it boring for the most part.

If a player commits a needless, reckless or cynical he deserves a yellow card. The players commited such fouls, it was only Howards Webbs duty to issue the cards they deserved.

How can it be claimed that that Webb was both card happy and too lenient at the same time?

I think cant think of any card he dished out could be argued to be "unfair".

At the same time De Jong probably should have been sent of and I can think of two or three players who were fortunate not to get two yellows within a couple of minutes.

Robben perhaps should have been gien a foul but it would mean pulling the play back after he was given a good chance, usually players arnt given "both".

Elia wasnt fouled that was very clear to me I understand why that is a big talking point (excuse/blame/whatever)

Spain were worthy winners in the end and perhaps thoughout the tournament although I would have prefered a more attractive side like Germany or Argentina to have won.

If anything a little disappointed that Spain didnt play more open football because if they did they were more than capable of wiping the floor with the rest of the world.

Well said !!!!

klc123 · Post by **klc123** » 14 Jul 2010, 15:39

panchester07 wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
klc123 wrote: Yes, he dove and landed on the turf hard and scratched himself. Poor kid.
Yeah damn those studs on the turf..Knew the South African pitches were inadequate..
KLC, I think we both know you don't get those cuts from diving. Maybe he was shaving his legs with a bad quality razor.. jk.. The dutch where pigs, and since they where so dirty, the few times he dove, the ref believed him since the dutch have applied all types of karate kicks on Spain. If they'd been clean all match probably the ref would have seen the pair of dives and said get up. Plus I don't know if I consider the red a dive since there was contact, it was exagerrated, but he did hold him.

The Dutch we very lucky it was a premier league referee, who are generally more lenient with the whole "proper men playing proper hard football in England" bulls**t.
Maybe thats why they where so dirty and aggresive? They knew Webb was more "lenient". Its really a crime what they did to him. Bitching every play, fouling all the time, horrible fouls, whinning in packs of 3-4 around him, foul or no foul they bitched at him like if he would have done the foul...and they know he tries to keep the game in order and not pull out any reds. I'd like to see anyother ref manage the situation. You really as a ref have to learn not to give a flaming fu**. His self-esteem must have suffered... No wonder he described it as the "2 hardest hours of his life", with all the float of wankers in the orange uniform.

No seriously, the bullets from the sniper that shot down Capdevilla were left on the pitch, and when Iniesta dived he landed on them and cut his legs.

And yeah that is possible, I wouldn't be suprised if players abused the fact that PL refs tend to be more lenient. To be honest, I hate that they are more lenient, you see a lot of play going on like this in the premier league...and a lot of career threatening/ending injuries and breaks, which is a shame.

ratherton · Post by **ratherton** » 14 Jul 2010, 20:00

klc123 wrote:
panchester07 wrote:
Wanderer wrote: Yeah damn those studs on the turf..Knew the South African pitches were inadequate..
KLC, I think we both know you don't get those cuts from diving. Maybe he was shaving his legs with a bad quality razor.. jk.. The dutch where pigs, and since they where so dirty, the few times he dove, the ref believed him since the dutch have applied all types of karate kicks on Spain. If they'd been clean all match probably the ref would have seen the pair of dives and said get up. Plus I don't know if I consider the red a dive since there was contact, it was exagerrated, but he did hold him.

The Dutch we very lucky it was a premier league referee, who are generally more lenient with the whole "proper men playing proper hard football in England" bulls**t.
Maybe thats why they where so dirty and aggresive? They knew Webb was more "lenient". Its really a crime what they did to him. Bitching every play, fouling all the time, horrible fouls, whinning in packs of 3-4 around him, foul or no foul they bitched at him like if he would have done the foul...and they know he tries to keep the game in order and not pull out any reds. I'd like to see anyother ref manage the situation. You really as a ref have to learn not to give a flaming fu**. His self-esteem must have suffered... No wonder he described it as the "2 hardest hours of his life", with all the float of wankers in the orange uniform.
No seriously, the bullets from the sniper that shot down Capdevilla were left on the pitch, and when Iniesta dived he landed on them and cut his legs.

And yeah that is possible, I wouldn't be suprised if players abused the fact that PL refs tend to be more lenient. To be honest, I hate that they are more lenient, you see a lot of play going on like this in the premier league...and a lot of career threatening/ending injuries and breaks, which is a shame.

Are you sure about that?

shahensha · Post by **shahensha** » 14 Jul 2010, 20:08

soccermatt wrote:shahensha, i am done with this argument because you are not listening to what i am saying and you are calling the kettle black saying im not listening.

Fair enough. My apologies for coming off as a hypocritcal and biased fellow at first but if you are saying that just because Puyol wasnt given a card or Robben was given an advantage doesnt disprove the fact that it would have been more of a definite foul than Heitinga's offence since Puyol's actions would have resulted in an injury, then yes i kinda listened i think.

ratherton wrote:
klc123 wrote:
panchester07 wrote: KLC, I think we both know you don't get those cuts from diving. Maybe he was shaving his legs with a bad quality razor.. jk.. The dutch where pigs, and since they where so dirty, the few times he dove, the ref believed him since the dutch have applied all types of karate kicks on Spain. If they'd been clean all match probably the ref would have seen the pair of dives and said get up. Plus I don't know if I consider the red a dive since there was contact, it was exagerrated, but he did hold him.
Maybe thats why they where so dirty and aggresive? They knew Webb was more "lenient". Its really a crime what they did to him. Bitching every play, fouling all the time, horrible fouls, whinning in packs of 3-4 around him, foul or no foul they bitched at him like if he would have done the foul...and they know he tries to keep the game in order and not pull out any reds. I'd like to see anyother ref manage the situation. You really as a ref have to learn not to give a flaming fu**. His self-esteem must have suffered... No wonder he described it as the "2 hardest hours of his life", with all the float of wankers in the orange uniform.
No seriously, the bullets from the sniper that shot down Capdevilla were left on the pitch, and when Iniesta dived he landed on them and cut his legs.

And yeah that is possible, I wouldn't be suprised if players abused the fact that PL refs tend to be more lenient. To be honest, I hate that they are more lenient, you see a lot of play going on like this in the premier league...and a lot of career threatening/ending injuries and breaks, which is a shame.
Are you sure about that?

Yeah, I can only recall about two incidents of career threatening injuries and their are many years in between. The recent one is eduardo and the other one was some man united player that I cant recall.

However, I guess it was Webb's reputation as a refferee who doesnt throw out cards alot that may have given van bommell and De Jong the incentive of going around kicking legs and stomping on feet. What they didnt realize is that Webb is actually a no nonsense refferee

klc123 · Post by **klc123** » 14 Jul 2010, 22:26

Another Arsenal player, can't remember his name, the young English player...Ahh it will come back to me soon. He had a career threatening injury last season.

Dunno about you, but 2 in 2 seasons isn't good, I don't hear a lot in La liga because not all the games are shown here in the UK so I watch what I can watch, but I haven't seen any sort of things like that before so frequently, normally they are just freak accidents that happen once every decade.

And in terms of dirty play in the Prem Ratherton, you only have to look at a Liverpool derby to see players kick the sh*t out of each other.

soccer11 · Post by **soccer11** » 14 Jul 2010, 22:36

Aaron Ramsey.

2 in 2 years isn't a lot, in my opinion at least. It's definitely a physical league, so when you take into account how physical it is, only having 2 (or so) really serious injuries in 2 years ins't that much.

Rome_Leader · Post by **Rome_Leader** » 14 Jul 2010, 23:56

Yeah. For how much MORE physical a league it is, you'd expect a lot worse. Derbies are always going to be more heated and physical, no matter where you go. I don't think two in two is bad either. One a season... Not exactly a lot.

shahensha · Post by **shahensha** » 15 Jul 2010, 00:07

yeah, derbies dont count. El clasico gets very dirty alot of times and thats one example from la liga. These freak accidents occur rarely in every league. Even in the premier league, its occurs rarely, granted more often in comparison but only by a minute margin and nothing for FA to be concerned about really.

NewBornProdigy · Post by **NewBornProdigy** » 15 Jul 2010, 11:32

Rome_Leader wrote:Yeah. For how much MORE physical a league it is, you'd expect a lot worse. Derbies are always going to be more heated and physical, no matter where you go. I don't think two in two is bad either. One a season... Not exactly a lot.

One serious injury a season?

Man thats alot if you ask me...

Diaby got his leg broken a few years back, there a few pretty hefty injuries

Hugh · Post by **Hugh** » 15 Jul 2010, 11:46

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_ ... _table.php

http://soccer-europe.com/Injuries/Spain.html

17 for la liga, 22 for EPL.

Bearing in mind that Rio, Torres and Nani injured themselves during the cup that makes the tally 19 for EPL and 17 for la liga. Hardly a huge disparity.

ratherton · Post by **ratherton** » 15 Jul 2010, 12:25

You can not automatically assume that because someone suffers a bad injury, it means the challenge was dirty and equally I've seen some terrible challenges where the player is fine.

The Premier League isn't a dirty league. Its more physical and played at a higher tempo but thats all.

Another factor is that the art of tackling is being removed from the game. Defending now involves getting between the ball and the attacker then falling over.

Rome_Leader · Post by **Rome_Leader** » 15 Jul 2010, 15:01

NewBornProdigy wrote:
Rome_Leader wrote:Yeah. For how much MORE physical a league it is, you'd expect a lot worse. Derbies are always going to be more heated and physical, no matter where you go. I don't think two in two is bad either. One a season... Not exactly a lot.
One serious injury a season?

Man thats alot if you ask me...

Diaby got his leg broken a few years back, there a few pretty hefty injuries

One injury a season for those two seasons. There may well have been a couple where nothing serious happened at all.

Seriously, for any contact sport, that's a damn good track record. We're talking 20 teams that play upwards of 35 games each.

NewBornProdigy · Post by **NewBornProdigy** » 15 Jul 2010, 16:14

Rome_Leader wrote:
NewBornProdigy wrote:
Rome_Leader wrote:Yeah. For how much MORE physical a league it is, you'd expect a lot worse. Derbies are always going to be more heated and physical, no matter where you go. I don't think two in two is bad either. One a season... Not exactly a lot.
One serious injury a season?

Man thats alot if you ask me...

Diaby got his leg broken a few years back, there a few pretty hefty injuries
One injury a season for those two seasons. There may well have been a couple where nothing serious happened at all.

Seriously, for any contact sport, that's a damn good track record. We're talking 20 teams that play upwards of 35 games each.

Oh right... I thought you meant just one club, Arsenal

Well yeah thats a very good record, but I'm sure there were more serious injuries than that, sure Fabregas broke his leg, it wasn't career threatening but thats a serious injury

panchester07 · Post by **panchester07** » 15 Jul 2010, 16:17

Yeah but wasn't that in the champs league? Would you count that?

klc123 · Post by **klc123** » 15 Jul 2010, 16:50

I was talking about Arsenal, but I don't know if there were any career threatening injuries for any other clubs.

And I didn't mean normal injuries, little tweaks and muscle injuries are not the kind I meant. I mean when players slide in 50-50s and one comes out with their leg hanging off.