WC Final

Forum about the biggest sporting event in the world
klc123
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Post by klc123 » 12 Jul 2010, 21:40

No it was a different freekick that hit the wall and went out for an obvious corner, goal kick given.

David Villa didn't gain an advantage, he didn't have a shot on goal, if I remember correctly. Robben however did have a shot on goal therefore it is deemed as a fair advantage, because if Robbens finishing was better, he would have scored, whereas Villa couldn't have gained any advantage because any chance was gone, so play was brought back.

It is difficult to referee under pressure, particularly a world cup final, I thought he done a fantastic job, and and Dutch fans that blame him for their lose are just clutching at straws.

ScottyBoy
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Post by ScottyBoy » 12 Jul 2010, 21:44

Blaming the ref is just silly. The only people responsible for the quality of the match are the players. They are the ones who make it good or bad. They made it boring for the most part.

If a player commits a needless, reckless or cynical he deserves a yellow card. The players commited such fouls, it was only Howards Webbs duty to issue the cards they deserved.

How can it be claimed that that Webb was both card happy and too lenient at the same time?

I think cant think of any card he dished out could be argued to be "unfair".

At the same time De Jong probably should have been sent of and I can think of two or three players who were fortunate not to get two yellows within a couple of minutes.

Robben perhaps should have been gien a foul but it would mean pulling the play back after he was given a good chance, usually players arnt given "both".

Elia wasnt fouled that was very clear to me I understand why that is a big talking point (excuse/blame/whatever)

Spain were worthy winners in the end and perhaps thoughout the tournament although I would have prefered a more attractive side like Germany or Argentina to have won.

If anything a little disappointed that Spain didnt play more open football because if they did they were more than capable of wiping the floor with the rest of the world.
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panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 12 Jul 2010, 21:46

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Both for red. That being said how can his job be fantastic if he missed two clearones? He did well mostly. But he missed some things. Good points scotty.
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shahensha
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Post by shahensha » 12 Jul 2010, 22:40

panchester07 wrote:haha exellent comment...

I disagree though, I think Xavi wasn't quite at his peak level for some reason this tournament. Iniesta played better for longer periods of the match, and though they both tried to find holes through the dutch lines, I believe Iniestaa had better results. He harmed more the defense. He was more vertical, and justtt he tried greater things and got better results than Xavi in my opinion. Xavi was great too, but Iniesta and Cesc (for the period he played) where better imo. Xavi sometimes(this tournament) has a clear pass and doesn't sned it and sometimes seems to forget that the goal is north, and goes east and west a bit more than I think is necessary at small times. Besides that, he played great and was key. :)

Kinda disagree about Cesc and agree about xavi. He seemed lost whenever he played but to give credit where its due, he did have some significant moments of contribution.

As for xavi, I was told he carried his hamstring injury at the end of the regular season on to the WC, which maybe a possible reason. I am not sure but i definitely remember him playing with his injury in the final three game to ensure Barca wins the league. However Xavi was definitely average for Barca duplicate in comparison to his stellar performances for Barca original. He didnt rack up assists or score goals which is why he was rightfully overlooked for the WC awards. However, like a small yet crucially important cog in the machine, he definitely was a key player for Spain and fullfilled his role to perfection.

This is evident by him topping all the passing statistics in the World Cup except assists, which to be fair really is an average Xavi.
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soccermatt
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Post by soccermatt » 13 Jul 2010, 08:46

My bad, you are right, it was only one hand and he wasnt directly behind him........however i dont think you have the trick down either considering you say Heitinga "barely tapped" his shoulder.......he is clearly holding on to the shoulder while iniesta takes two or three steps.....he only seems to raise his hand when he senses iniesta was falling.....thats no where close to being "barely tapped".
silly. you said you aren't biased, and pointing out evidence. Do you honestly believe a little hand on the shoulder, which was whittled down to a hand on the shoulder from your double handed death attack you first saw (sorry i ruined your credibility), would be more debilitating than what puyol did? Dont worry that Robben kept playing and the ref played advantage, you were set on puyol being innocent and Heitinga being a demon. So if you were in a foot race for example, you would rather someone do something like...
He was simply beside him trying to put an arm across to stop him and that didnt work because Robben was too fast. Then he tried to grab robben but just lost his footing, ended up swiveling around him and almost taking his legs out.
than someone put a hand on your shoulder?

P.S. Not a Netherlands or Spain fan

Wanderer
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Post by Wanderer » 13 Jul 2010, 11:59

Look at Iniesta's legs in this video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5b3uOsOZqI
got that from diving eh?

shahensha
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Post by shahensha » 13 Jul 2010, 16:03

silly. you said you aren't biased, and pointing out evidence. Do you honestly believe a little hand on the shoulder, which was whittled down to a hand on the shoulder from your double handed death attack you first saw (sorry i ruined your credibility), would be more debilitating than what puyol did? Dont worry that Robben kept playing and the ref played advantage, you were set on puyol being innocent and Heitinga being a demon. So if you were in a foot race for example, you would rather someone do something like...
lmao you foolish kid, did you not read me owning up to my mistake of being shortsighted and admitting you were correct?

Dont be sorry about ruining my credibility, just be sorry for not getting the point....hahaha

but let me explain it clearly and you read it slowly, ok

Heitinga actually got a hold on Iniesta's shoulder before he could start running onto a goal scoring pass and held on to it for 2-3 steps (although it was ONE hand and NOT from behind)..........not barely tapped little hand on the shoulder like you suggest.

Robben was already on the run towards goal....Puyol put an arm across and tried to hold him back with that instead of grabbing a body part with his hand....which is legit....but it failed cause robben was too quick....as a result he slipped, spun around robben and almost wiped his legs out.....(mind you, his actions didnt look purposeful like heitinga's offence....just ridiculously clumsy).........regardless, Robben was unfazed by all, which is why he was given advantage but he failed to score.....play over........I had already said this was a guaranteed foul earlier and I reiterate it really would have been had Robben lost control of the ball.

Point being I am not saying Puyol is an innocent angel and Heitinga is a demon but very genius of you to that conclusion...

I am just making sense of why Webb felt the need to not do anything to Puyol and card Heitinga.

EDIT: Seriously I cant be any clearer than that...

Edit II: It seemed as Puyol tried to hold on to Robben's torso as the dutchman sped away, which may have given brown the opinion that it was a bearhug, which started this argument. imo it wasnt really deliberate because there was no shirt tugging
Last edited by shahensha on 13 Jul 2010, 17:09, edited 1 time in total.
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klc123
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Post by klc123 » 13 Jul 2010, 16:52

Wanderer wrote:Look at Iniesta's legs in this video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5b3uOsOZqI
got that from diving eh?
Yes, he dove and landed on the turf hard and scratched himself. Poor kid.

Wanderer
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Post by Wanderer » 13 Jul 2010, 17:13

klc123 wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Look at Iniesta's legs in this video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5b3uOsOZqI
got that from diving eh?
Yes, he dove and landed on the turf hard and scratched himself. Poor kid.
Yeah damn those studs on the turf..Knew the South African pitches were inadequate..

shahensha
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Post by shahensha » 13 Jul 2010, 17:29

damn, apparently guardiola sent a message to his players before the final to pump them up.

Whats shocking is that he used Iniesta's face at the end........its like that man knew what was going to happen :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioAzQNAV ... r_embedded
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nick117
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Post by nick117 » 13 Jul 2010, 18:30

klc david villa himself didn't get the advantage but his team got the ball and in most cases would constatute (sp) an advantage to be played. Panchester i'm not sure in a world cup final if i would give that foul on iniesta a straight red obvious yellow but maybe not a red that karate kick was obviously a purple though.

soccermatt
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Post by soccermatt » 13 Jul 2010, 19:10

shahensha, i am done with this argument because you are not listening to what i am saying and you are calling the kettle black saying im not listening.

panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 13 Jul 2010, 19:34

nick117 wrote:klc david villa himself didn't get the advantage but his team got the ball and in most cases would constatute (sp) an advantage to be played. Panchester i'm not sure in a world cup final if i would give that foul on iniesta a straight red obvious yellow but maybe not a red that karate kick was obviously a purple though.


It was a foul from behind, when he was beaten, on his support foot, and away from the ball .. Its not as clear as the other one, but I think its nasty as fu** and 9/10 ref's would have sent him off.

To be fair, the ref all over the world, important people have admitted he done pretty sh*tty, and said it in their words, Cruyff, Blatter among others.
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klc123
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Post by klc123 » 13 Jul 2010, 21:59

If it wasn't a world cup final, and it wasn't the first bad challenge Van Bommel had done, I would say he would have been a gonner.

The Dutch we very lucky it was a premier league referee, who are generally more lenient with the whole "proper men playing proper hard football in England" bulls**t.

panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 14 Jul 2010, 00:59

Wanderer wrote:
klc123 wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Look at Iniesta's legs in this video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5b3uOsOZqI
got that from diving eh?
Yes, he dove and landed on the turf hard and scratched himself. Poor kid.
Yeah damn those studs on the turf..Knew the South African pitches were inadequate..
KLC, I think we both know you don't get those cuts from diving. :wink: Maybe he was shaving his legs with a bad quality razor.. jk.. The dutch where pigs, and since they where so dirty, the few times he dove, the ref believed him since the dutch have applied all types of karate kicks on Spain. If they'd been clean all match probably the ref would have seen the pair of dives and said get up. Plus I don't know if I consider the red a dive since there was contact, it was exagerrated, but he did hold him.
The Dutch we very lucky it was a premier league referee, who are generally more lenient with the whole "proper men playing proper hard football in England" bulls**t.
Maybe thats why they where so dirty and aggresive? They knew Webb was more "lenient". Its really a crime what they did to him. Bitching every play, fouling all the time, horrible fouls, whinning in packs of 3-4 around him, foul or no foul they bitched at him like if he would have done the foul...and they know he tries to keep the game in order and not pull out any reds. I'd like to see anyother ref manage the situation. You really as a ref have to learn not to give a flaming fu**. His self-esteem must have suffered... No wonder he described it as the "2 hardest hours of his life", with all the float of wankers in the orange uniform.
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