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Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 14:14
by shahensha
Oh that final was a terrible game. I would have enjoyed it if I hadnt hyped it up so much. Who would have thought that the Dutch would play caveman football?! Then again its not surprising considering its Spain that they were facing.

Spain had to face that kind of anti-football approach throughout the tournament. The only team that had the balls to attack them was Chile. The rest just sat back to defend and jump on the counter.

Many claim watching spain in this WC has been "boring" but its not their fault at all. They did their very best to play good football and entertain the people. Its just that their opponents never realized that they were supposed to play football too. Instead they either parked the bus or parked the bus and hacked legs. Its obviously difficult for any team to have a blow out when their opponents have that kind of defensive display.

Sure its great to watch a well timed tackle or pass interception but it gets damn annoying and monotonous when everyone tends to rely on it.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 15:06
by Hugh
shahensha wrote:Many claim watching spain in this WC has been "boring" but its not their fault at all. They did their very best to play good football and entertain the people. Its just that their opponents never realized that they were supposed to play football too. Instead they either parked the bus or parked the bus and hacked legs. Its obviously difficult for any team to have a blow out when their opponents have that kind of defensive display.
This

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 15:20
by panchester07
Not to disagree with you again, but to quote you:
Spain was outrageously boring in my opinon.
So which of the two? The one you literally posted, or the one you are quoting now?

as a game of course it could have been better sure a 3-2 or 4-2 would have been more exciting. but at the same time its exciiting as hell knowing that the 11 bst of a country, are playing the 11 best of another, and battling it out to take the glory home, for the first time. That being said, a world cup final could be closed like this one, with one team parking the bus, but its still a world cup final none the less, and anything that happens is exciting. in spite of this the game had chances, a few 1 v 1's, nice passes, good dribbles, and world class players trying to get through other world class players defesnes. i consider this fun.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 15:38
by Hugh
panchester07 wrote:Not to disagree with you again, but to quote you:
Spain was outrageously boring in my opinon.
So which of the two? The one you literally posted, or the one you are quoting now?

as a game of course it could have been better sure a 3-2 or 4-2 would have been more exciting. but at the same time its exciiting as hell knowing that the 11 bst of a country, are playing the 11 best of another, and battling it out to take the glory home, for the first time. That being said, a world cup final could be closed like this one, with one team parking the bus, but its still a world cup final none the less, and anything that happens is exciting. in spite of this the game had chances, a few 1 v 1's, nice passes, good dribbles, and world class players trying to get through other world class players defesnes. i consider this fun.
I think the outrageously boring statement is wrong. I posted that in the heat of the moment and what I was really feeling was intensely frustrated with the way that the game went, like shahensha said they did their best not to be boring but they couldn't avoid a low scoreline because the dutch played like turtles. Teenage mutant ninja turtles.

It's exciting when you say it like that, but that's build up to the game, if we'd seen the exact same game being played out between tottenham and sunderland in one of the earliest rounds of the FA cup would you still say that it was exciting? The fact that it was a final only makes it exciting if you have a reason to cheer for one of the teams and I didn't.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 15:44
by panchester07
Thats a good point, I don't know, but it wasn't the case, so why do I care? Even if I wasn't cheering for spain, i'd still enjoy the 130 minutes of the match. Also, didn't I read you where cheering for the oranje? I think I read that after the semi's. Probably if Spain was tottenham, the other team wouldn't park the bus, so really theres no case. Anywhatever, I respect your opinion whatever it is.. I liked the match, and Ithought it had enough chances and action to be enjoyable. Definetly could have had more, but it was better than the spain vs germany match i'd say.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 17:11
by Hugh
Yeah it was defs better than spain vs germany.

But no if there was a particular team I wanted to win it was spain, we have a betting pool at work and since spain won I will recieve 2 ice creams from my coworkers but if netherlands won I would only have recieved 1. I wasn't really that attached to any team though, I just wanted a good game.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 18:38
by soccermatt
Heitinga on the other hand deliberately tried to stop Iniesta by standing directly behind him and placing both his hands on iniesta's shoulders before the little man could even start sprinting for the pass.

I am not being biased or closed minded. Just pointing out what is in the evidence.
i like how you point out the evidence but obviously didn't watch the evidence in the video clips you were posting about. Two hands on iniestas shoulder? i saw one, maybe i cant count to two, but im pretty sure ive got that trick down. Heitinga barely tapped him on the shoulder, was way more to the side of him than behind him (hence his right hand touching iniestas left shoulder) and then iniesta hit the ground like someone had put up invisible wire right in front of him.

As for the rest of the game i thought it was somewhat disgraceful and boring for a world cup final. Both teams played dirty, both teams flopped, both teams complained to the ref whenever possible, both teams had scoring chances. neither team could put away any chances (until iniestas goal of course) and when they couldn't capitalize they just blamed the ref or said there was a foul. Spain finally put one in the net, whether it was because Heitinga was kicked off or not it still happened, thats the way the game went and theres no changing that. Sad to say it because it was a poor excuse for a final to the world cup but spain deserved the win, but only because they managed to put one in. Im not saying the whole world cup was boring or anything, i loved spending the last month in front of the TV, but i just feel this wasn't up to par for a world cup final. Now ive gotta find something to do until season starts haha



edit: i suck at forums. the quote is from shahensha's post on page 10 i believe

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 21:02
by shahensha
soccermatt wrote:
Heitinga on the other hand deliberately tried to stop Iniesta by standing directly behind him and placing both his hands on iniesta's shoulders before the little man could even start sprinting for the pass.

I am not being biased or closed minded. Just pointing out what is in the evidence.
i like how you point out the evidence but obviously didn't watch the evidence in the video clips you were posting about. Two hands on iniestas shoulder? i saw one, maybe i cant count to two, but im pretty sure ive got that trick down. Heitinga barely tapped him on the shoulder, was way more to the side of him than behind him (hence his right hand touching iniestas left shoulder) and then iniesta hit the ground like someone had put up invisible wire right in front of him.
My bad, you are right, it was only one hand and he wasnt directly behind him........however i dont think you have the trick down either considering you say Heitinga "barely tapped" his shoulder.......he is clearly holding on to the shoulder while iniesta takes two or three steps.....he only seems to raise his hand when he senses iniesta was falling.....thats no where close to being "barely tapped".

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 21:04
by nick117
"In a World Cup final, you have to be on top of your game. Last night, Howard Webb was anything but. In addition to several missed calls on corner kicks, the English referee’s decisions on fouls were downright disgraceful. Early in the game, he should have sent off Dutch midfielder Nigel de Jong for a high kick on Xabi Alonso that was nowhere near the ball.

Early in the second half, John Heitinga - who would later be sent off shortly before Andres Iniesta’s winner - was carded for a late, but soft, challenge on David Villa, after an eternity of deliberation. Moments later, Iniesta committed a similar foul on Arjen Robben, but escaped without a booking. In the 79th minute, Iniesta reacted to Van Bommel’s foul by lashing out at the Dutchman, and by the letter of the law, should have been awarded a straight red card.

In the closing minutes of regulation time, Robben was in full flight, having blown past Carles Puyol. On his way through, the winger was pulled back, which was just enough to prevent him from scoring. Puyol should have been sent off for preventing a clear scoring opportunity, and the Dutch should have had a free kick at the edge of the penalty area.

Finally, Eljero Elia was blocked off by Sergio Ramos in the moments before Spain broke forward and Iniesta netted the winner. Already controversial due to Iniesta’s previous offenses, the goal would never have been scored if Elia had earned a deserved free-kick.

The Netherlands and Spain both deserved to win last night’s final. It’s a shame that Webb, and not the players, decided the result. The fans deserved better." -goal.com

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 21:08
by shahensha
no offence nick, i found that source credible until i read that its from goal.com. I tend to find that majorty of members on any football forum do not appreciate that website.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 21:21
by klc123
Slate Webb all you like, he done a brilliant job.

1. It would have killed the game if he was sending off player willy-nilly, I think he used good common sense to keep every on the field by half time, but it reached a point where he eventually had no choice but to give a red card, which is a shame in a world cup final.

2. There was only one corner/goal kick decision he made wrong.

3. When Robben was pulled by Puyol, Robben still had the goal scoring chance, so playing the advantage was the correct thing to do, its not Webbs fault that Robben couldn't finish it. If Robben wanted the freekick, he should have went down. Simple as in my opinion.

4. In my opinion, Elia went down looking for a freekick. There were many occasions in which the Spanish went down with more of a case for a free kick and nothing was given, the thing I respect with Webb was that he was consistent in his decision making, his definition for a foul was universal for all challenges, and that is something that all referees should practice.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 21:23
by Hugh
I was discussing this with my buddy at work this morning and we both think that the game would have been completely different (and possibly better) if the third yellow card hadn't been given (I'm pretty sure that was the weak one that started the ball rolling uncontrollably) and also if de Jong had been shown a straight red.

That way Webb would have gotten the correct message across: "I'm not going to take any of your violent sh*t in this game"

but he also would have avoided saying "Hay guys, have you seen my card trick? lol"

He didn't do a good job but I have sympathy for him because during a final game it is very hard to keep the game under reign and the temptation is to over correct.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 21:31
by panchester07
2. There was only one corner/goal kick decision he made wrong.
Evne this decision if i understand correctly, was proper, since sneijder was suppose to play a fair play pass to iker, and instead of gently lobbing the ball, he shot it withh lots of power, and making it complicated to control

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3SIgDvKMEE

Is this what we are talking about?
Though Iker touched it, it wasn't a corner since Sneijder had to fair play it back, instead of doing what he did.

Van Bommel and the kung fuu guy bothhh deserveeed red's CLEARLY, before the 90 minutes where over. those are two mistakes i recall. he was too afraid to pull out a red card.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 21:31
by nick117
Heres my question for you KLC he played the advantage when david villa was fouled then pulled it back for a yellow card. So if it was an advantage and he lost the advantage shouldn't it be pulled back and puyol be sent off? Wrong situation panchester it was a much different time with a real shot on goal.

Posted: 12 Jul 2010, 21:38
by Hugh
panchester07 wrote:
2. There was only one corner/goal kick decision he made wrong.
Evne this decision if i understand correctly, was proper, since sneijder was suppose to play a fair play pass to iker, and instead of gently lobbing the ball, he shot it withh lots of power, and making it complicated to control

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3SIgDvKMEE

Is this what we are talking about?
Though Iker touched it, it wasn't a corner since Sneijder had to fair play it back, instead of doing what he did.
No he was talking about a free kick given to netherlands, sjneiderman shot it and it hit the wall and deflected out, it should have been a corner but webb gave a goal kick (must really have not been paying attention) casillas took the goal kick quickly and it lead to Iniesta's goal.

in the pass back scenario sjneider didn't mean to do that, casillas just misjudged it badly, literally no fault to sjneider on that one just a coincidence really.