WC Final

Forum about the biggest sporting event in the world
shahensha
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Post by shahensha » 12 Jul 2010, 05:34

Pichichi wrote:Shahensha, one might argue that had Heitinga not been sent off for two questionable yellows the dutch might not have conceded. Saying the diving didn't decide the game, maybe, but it affected it massively.

Not to mention this "one game" happens to be the world cup final...
Surely Heitinga's pull on Iniesta was done deliberately to stop him. He knew there was a definite goal scoring chance and held him from sprinting on to that chipped pass so his teammates could get to it first.

Its easy to criticise and point fingers but obviously no one would shrug that dirty move off and continue on with the game quietly because they follow the philosophy of "two wrongs dont make a right".

All puyol tried to do on the other end was wipe Robben's legs out. Robben skipped over them like it was nothing and continued to dribble thinking he could get past Casillas too.

That would have been a guaranteed foul if Robben went to the ground but unlike Iniesta, Robben was in control of the ball and had an excellent chance of scoring a goal if he had just chipped it over casillas or cut to the right better. Iniesta was fouled/gently pulled back (whatever) before he even got close to the ball.
Last edited by shahensha on 12 Jul 2010, 05:37, edited 1 time in total.
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mustahfa14
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Post by mustahfa14 » 12 Jul 2010, 05:37

lmao pinichi you are something else. you call out the the "biased posters" when you are clearly the most biased I have seen yet. you are so hung up on iniesta diving twice, that you are defending the dutch, and calling spain pussies. sounds like someones angry spain won :roll:

Get a hold of yourself. Several dutch players dived this game too, and wheres you complaining about them? busquets dived, why arent you talking about that? Robben dived, elia dived, what about them? you are just mad becuase iniesta made the dutch look stupid, and finished in extra time to win. Otherwise, you just have it out for iniesta...one of the best players in the world.

heitinga deserved that yellow. He knew it. You can tell by the way he jogged off with barley a complaint. He pulled him back. Little bit of acting, but the foul was there. otherwise he was in.

dutch played god awful. spain was the better team all around. thye played the best soccer, they won. No argue over that.

iniesta had one clear dive. thats all i saw. other players had more than that, and pinichi you claim hes a disgrace or whatever you said.

and the dutch werent just playing rough, they took it to the max. Van bommel went for blood. if you dont think so, then you are biased, and blind. the whole team i guess was just rough, which is fine, but some players were taking it too far. De jong we dont have to go there.
And when i, or we, say going for blood, its not literal. He just goes in to hard to take you are...bad and make you feel it, rather than going for the ball. AND THAT is a DISGRACE to the game.

nick117
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Post by nick117 » 12 Jul 2010, 05:57

mustahfa the german bandwagon wasn't really a problem i enjoy seeing people support the underdog (weird germany being an underdog) vs a big team like spain who happened to be tournement favorites except for maybe brazil but that's iffy. Anyone in the world could jump teams to spain and try and rub it in that oh spain won. Moving on

Yes spain won overall they did play better today save a few defensive lapses which on another day would have cost the game. With the exception of the karate kid i'm proud of the netherlands for not completely shrinking into a shell vs spain like all of the other teams did this was one of the few games involving spain that wasn't a challenge to stay awake.

To be fair inesta didn't make the dutch look bad at all he scored a good goal when the dutch had 10 men fantastic however he should have been sent off along with around 4 other players (puyol, van bommel, robben, probably missing someone).

I'm curious now how long torres is going to be out for that poor guy needs to just sit on an island somewhere inside of a bubble so he dosen't get hurt.

2brown347
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Post by 2brown347 » 12 Jul 2010, 06:04

shahensha wrote:
Pichichi wrote:Shahensha, one might argue that had Heitinga not been sent off for two questionable yellows the dutch might not have conceded. Saying the diving didn't decide the game, maybe, but it affected it massively.

Not to mention this "one game" happens to be the world cup final...
Surely Heitinga's pull on Iniesta was done deliberately to stop him. He knew there was a definite goal scoring chance and held him from sprinting on to that chipped pass so his teammates could get to it first.

Its easy to criticise and point fingers but obviously no one would shrug that dirty move off and continue on with the game quietly because they follow the philosophy of "two wrongs dont make a right".

All puyol tried to do on the other end was wipe Robben's legs out. Robben skipped over them like it was nothing and continued to dribble thinking he could get past Casillas too.

That would have been a guaranteed foul if Robben went to the ground but unlike Iniesta, Robben was in control of the ball and had an excellent chance of scoring a goal if he had just chipped it over casillas or cut to the right better. Iniesta was fouled/gently pulled back (whatever) before he even got close to the ball.
Heitinga's hand on his shoulder wasn't a fraction of Puyol's bearhug.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glg79r9KnQQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRgFkoV ... re=related

One of those is a player being prevented from a scoring chance by a obvious foul from a player on a yellow card, one is a player getting touched by a player with a yellow card on a ball he wasn't going to get to anyway.

Maybe I'm old fashion but I think people a little bit of rough play isn't a bad thing. If players had it their way they'd never be touched, and the diving and bitching that they do is getting picked up by young players who do it more and more and more. This sh*t started happening a lot in the 80's and now a player can't be touched without it being a huge deal.

I wish it was the way of Pele's day when it took damn near breaking a leg to get cationed, it might humble some of the players today.

and Robben red nick?

nick117
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Post by nick117 » 12 Jul 2010, 06:07

Well i'm almost 75% sure for a robben red maybe web did the right thing but if i remember right he did get two warnings at the end after he had a yellow one for knowingly kicking it past casillas and one for something else if not it was close. Goal.com did a decent article making points of the major things he missed.

2brown347
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Post by 2brown347 » 12 Jul 2010, 06:18

nick117 wrote:Well i'm almost 75% sure for a robben red maybe web did the right thing but if i remember right he did get two warnings at the end after he had a yellow one for knowingly kicking it past casillas and one for something else if not it was close. Goal.com did a decent article making points of the major things he missed.
To be fair in my book he didn't deserve the first yellow or the warning for kicking it past casillas. If a ref blows a call like Webb did he deserves to hear it, some players wouldn't do it, but he did and IMO he was just in doing it. Then kicking it past Casillas wasn't as big of a deal as the Spainish made it out to be. Casillas could have stopped the ball and even if he couldn't its not like he kicked it across the pitch or into the stands.

panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 12 Jul 2010, 06:21

2brown347 wrote:
Hugh wrote:
panchester07 wrote:Webb was to soft with the dutch. they should have finished the 90 minutes with 2 less players

and hugh, brown, nobody cares about your emoness and negativity. Spain is champion of the world for the first time.... woooooooo.... !!! take this word for word and digestt it.. N-O-B-O-D-Y C-A-R-E-S--- for real and normal fans, this was a great tournament, if you wanna look at the down side, then go aheadd, for the normal good real fans, this was a great world cup, and we are sad its over..
This was a great tournament up to the final, not to put words in anyone's mouth but in brown's last post he seemed to be of the same opinion.
pan- This would be correct. I know I should make my post more clear at times since people without English as their first language can sometimes take things literal. What I said about the the Germany vs Uraguay game wasn't a jab at the whole WC, I was basically saying that is the way a final should be played.

I think you think I'm defending the dutch more than I am as well. The dutch got the worse of it (since they lost) and I have stated I was thinking they would win so that is an understandable conclusion. That said look at some of the post I've made about teams I actually care about, I won't talk about a game being crap just because the team I wanted to win didn't. Don't believe me? See what I posted when the only team I really care about in the WC was knocked out:
USA deserved the loss. The "never give up" spirt only goes so far, at some point we'll have to make it longer than 15 minutes before conceding a goal. I hope the US starts rebuilding instantly. Out with any player that won't be realistic for the next WC. That includes Bocanegra, DeMerit, and others for sure. I think Landon and Dempsey should stick around but if they start slacking they should be dumped. Sounds harsh but winning friendlies with players who won't be in the next WC is a waste of time. Out with the old in with the new.
They lost, I was pissed, but there wasn't anything to complain about other than the USA's quality.

With this final it's not the team that won that has me pissed, it wasthe quality of the game on all fronts.


Also your jabs really do get annoying, I usually ignore them but truthfully it just makes you look like a douche to everyone.
Ok - thanks for sounding more human and less partial..

About the last part.. You need to understand "my jabs". I talk to people in the streets... "oh what i sick match, did you see that one pedro almost scored, spain really played well, outplayed the rival, etc, etc".. I turn on the TV, Espn, the analysts go "Well Spain really diserve the win, they came to play football, while the other team decided to counterattack, and played "not to loose" instead of winning"... The few negatives of the gamee are mentionedd for a short time.. But people focuss on the positives, which is most of the game, cause we really love football, and if you love something, you enjoy watching it, and you have fun watching it. You don't need 13 goals, the whole experience is a positive one. I love watching Spain pass, I'm a player, I know what they are doing is risky, I know its not easy, I know the pressure they undergo, I know these things. I enjoy dribbles, I enjoy crosses, change of directions, receiving, good touch, awesome shots, attacking football . All around my circle, and all around the world, news, sites, etc, the world cup is positive.

Here, if germany or holland doesn't win its..... "iniesta is a diving cheater flopper" ...... ."that game was super boringg, the only game i enjoyed was the uruguay-germany game" - etc, etc, but not once, you gett post after posts, each packed with 10 different complains, whines, and bitching.-

Its freaking annoying, leads me to think why you watch the sport after all, if you complain so much, I think you can go watch another sport that you don't care about the diving(when everybody does it, not proper but learn to cope with it), so really, don't talk about annoying, cause i've been having to deal with it all freaking world cup. quite complaining. learn to be more impartial, and enjoy the game. While on EF, I might look like a douche for posting positive stuff about the games, and about football because at the end of the day thats why I watch it, to enjoy it, and have positive experiences (fun), and disagreeing with those who complain about "boredness" of a world cup semi-final(are you kidding me?) in the real world the mayority of fans that have watched football for long enough would agree with me.

About puyol's "bearhug" .. the play continued, either you have the chance, or you have the foul, not both??? also, if you where to sanction this, every corner, you have to call a foul like 5 times. Webb made no mistake in that play.
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panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 12 Jul 2010, 06:28

This will sound cruel as hell, but calling a world cup semi-final boring, is clear indicator that you are eitherr the most biased person ever, or you clearly have no damn idea about football period. Not a jab. Just the truth. Sometimes it hurts. Do you watch the games because you like football? Or do you watch the games because you just wanna have fun or something? For a football fan, a semi-final of a world cup will always be fun.. If you call it boring, you mught just be better off watching another sport . Maybe some of you watch it because you played "soccer" in jv in your high school. Maybe not. But other's watch it.. simply because how the hell couldn't we. Its our fu**ing life.

Watching 130 minutes of action, between the two best football teams, with the 22 best football players of the world, and only having energy to bitch about flopping, to complain about the ref, to whine and moan like a girl..... Are you joking? Some said a while ago "this forum isn't how it use to be"... If this is what you mean, a forum where complaints reign, where all there is after a game is whining, and where these complaints and false criticism are backed up member after member 3 times, then I simply don't like this forum anymore.
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shahensha
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Post by shahensha » 12 Jul 2010, 07:09

2brown347 wrote:
shahensha wrote:
Pichichi wrote:Shahensha, one might argue that had Heitinga not been sent off for two questionable yellows the dutch might not have conceded. Saying the diving didn't decide the game, maybe, but it affected it massively.

Not to mention this "one game" happens to be the world cup final...
Surely Heitinga's pull on Iniesta was done deliberately to stop him. He knew there was a definite goal scoring chance and held him from sprinting on to that chipped pass so his teammates could get to it first.

Its easy to criticise and point fingers but obviously no one would shrug that dirty move off and continue on with the game quietly because they follow the philosophy of "two wrongs dont make a right".

All puyol tried to do on the other end was wipe Robben's legs out. Robben skipped over them like it was nothing and continued to dribble thinking he could get past Casillas too.

That would have been a guaranteed foul if Robben went to the ground but unlike Iniesta, Robben was in control of the ball and had an excellent chance of scoring a goal if he had just chipped it over casillas or cut to the right better. Iniesta was fouled/gently pulled back (whatever) before he even got close to the ball.
Heitinga's hand on his shoulder wasn't a fraction of Puyol's bearhug.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glg79r9KnQQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRgFkoV ... re=related

One of those is a player being prevented from a scoring chance by a obvious foul from a player on a yellow card, one is a player getting touched by a player with a yellow card on a ball he wasn't going to get to anyway.

Maybe I'm old fashion but I think people a little bit of rough play isn't a bad thing. If players had it their way they'd never be touched, and the diving and bitching that they do is getting picked up by young players who do it more and more and more. This sh*t started happening a lot in the 80's and now a player can't be touched without it being a huge deal.

I wish it was the way of Pele's day when it took damn near breaking a leg to get cationed, it might humble some of the players today.

and Robben red nick?
Bearhug? good lord....no wonder everyone is calling iniesta a cheat and diver instead of respecting the fact that he was one of the only world class players to have lived up to his hype in this WC..........you all blindly exaggerate things. Jeez.

Puyol never tried to bearhug robben and he certainly didnt try to pull him back from behind. He was simply beside him trying to put an arm across to stop him and that didnt work because Robben was too fast. Then he tried to grab robben but just lost his footing, ended up swiveling around him and almost taking his legs out. He didnt get a solid hold on him like Heitinga did against Iniesta. Its prolly a failed attempt at being a boa constrictor but definitely not a bearhug lol

Heitinga on the other hand deliberately tried to stop Iniesta by standing directly behind him and placing both his hands on iniesta's shoulders before the little man could even start sprinting for the pass.

Its not like Robben was being noble and full of principle anyway. If he refused to go down, then he should have accepted that the referee did not call the foul instead sprinting all the way back to the ref and bitch to him for playing the advantage and giving him a chance to score a goal.

I am not being biased or closed minded. Just pointing out what is in the evidence.
Last edited by shahensha on 12 Jul 2010, 07:25, edited 1 time in total.
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panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 12 Jul 2010, 07:23

2brown347 wrote:
nick117 wrote:Well i'm almost 75% sure for a robben red maybe web did the right thing but if i remember right he did get two warnings at the end after he had a yellow one for knowingly kicking it past casillas and one for something else if not it was close. Goal.com did a decent article making points of the major things he missed.
To be fair in my book he didn't deserve the first yellow or the warning for kicking it past casillas. If a ref blows a call like Webb did he deserves to hear it, some players wouldn't do it, but he did and IMO he was just in doing it. Then kicking it past Casillas wasn't as big of a deal as the Spainish made it out to be. Casillas could have stopped the ball and even if he couldn't its not like he kicked it across the pitch or into the stands.
Are you crazy? How did he not here it? Didn't you see he slowed the play so much, Casillas stopped, everybody stopped, and he kicked it anyway in "i'm so baddd attitude" slow motion, thats always for a yellow, the rule book is clear.... obviously. Also, in the firsttt one v onee, he had a foot ontop of casillas. he triedd to finishh and couldnt and in the attempt to jump over him he got a cleat ontop of casillas stomache.... Just playinggggg the game your playing. Forget about the ref... Spain had more chances, more possesion, more disposition, attacked more, and were better. They deserve the win yo. They are fair champions. They played the best football. What does it matter if there where a few incidences. Its politically imposible to ref perfectly with all the pressure. Webb made mistakes, and he's the best reff in the world...... He tried hard to go with his no red's run etc, but the gamee really lostt its trail with all the early kicking which was clearly a pre-planned strategy. There wass a question after the germany game, "how do you stop spain's midfield" - obviously the dutch tried to stop it by kicking, which is not fine, and lead to the game being a more aggresive moree dirty less clean one. the wiser team won.
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terminator
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Post by terminator » 12 Jul 2010, 08:18

What an EXCELLENT match of football...a perfect ending to the World Cup!
Is it just me but I thought Xavi was the man of the match ?(given Iniesta hadn't scored)
He was constantly passing and trying to penetrate and do combination plays.

panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 12 Jul 2010, 08:44

haha exellent comment...

I disagree though, I think Xavi wasn't quite at his peak level for some reason this tournament. Iniesta played better for longer periods of the match, and though they both tried to find holes through the dutch lines, I believe Iniestaa had better results. He harmed more the defense. He was more vertical, and justtt he tried greater things and got better results than Xavi in my opinion. Xavi was great too, but Iniesta and Cesc (for the period he played) where better imo. Xavi sometimes(this tournament) has a clear pass and doesn't sned it and sometimes seems to forget that the goal is north, and goes east and west a bit more than I think is necessary at small times. Besides that, he played great and was key. :)
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Wanderer
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Post by Wanderer » 12 Jul 2010, 11:01

Random comment but put it this way..if it was in a perfect refereeing world where every decision was correct, Spain might have had 2, 3 players(Puyol, Iniesta etc) sent off, but the Dutch would have had 4,5 players sent off(Robben, De Jong, Van Bommel, Heitinga, Sneijder etc), so Spain would still have a numerical advantage. So dont see the point in ppl indicating which Spanish player should have been sent off.

panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 12 Jul 2010, 11:13

Woah!!! Same could be said about the chances. If everybody finished their clear chances, Spain would have still won. More chances, and cleaner football, definetly deserves them the trophy.. That being said this what if game was senselss all along..
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh » 12 Jul 2010, 13:40

Never mind the quality, feel the justice. A World Cup final so far removed from the Beautiful Game, so far out of keeping with such a largely upbeat tournament, was deservedly settled Spain’s way by Andrés Iniesta four minutes from the end of extra-time.
-Telegraph

Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that the semi-finals were a better game.

You can think what you want panchester but I find myself extremely hard pressed to enjoy a game with such a ridiculous amount of fouling.

Perhaps boring is the wrong word, infuriating is more like it.

When we say this forum used to be better we mean that there used to be many more regular posters and discussions were more lively.

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