Champions League Final 2011

Discussion about European club leagues, Champions League and anything in UEFA

Who will win the 2011 Champions League Final?

Manchester United
5
33%
Barcelona
10
67%
 
Total votes: 15

TheBrilliance
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Post by TheBrilliance » 31 May 2011, 11:41

Damn it sorry guys, Ian Holloway was tampering with my keyboard

shahensha
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Post by shahensha » 31 May 2011, 19:40

panchester07 wrote:yeah i agree, as i said in my post, quite a few teams before mourinho figured out the playing style that defeated this super barca, mou is a famous case, but there are smaller sides like rubin kazan and hercule that have surprised barcelona in the past the russians, i think, before mou did - and i'm to lazy to research and analyze but there have to be more cases - now the Mou won in the Cup of del Rey was notorious because they created more chances than Barcelona and could have been up in the first half by a few goals, specially Pepe's post but a few other situations - it was also the first time in a long while before real finally beat the super Pep-Team

even though it might be good for my tactical knowledge overall, i can't watch that video, it was too painfull too watch my team suffer the first time, not to mention now watching the rerun and analysis of th ass-whooping :(
It was a tale of two halves though. First half Madrid dominated, second half the Barca players got into their rhythm and forced three crucial saves out of Casillas.....one even ended up in the back of net after Messi ran past everyone and set up Pedro but that was called offside. Dont make it sound like Madrid completely dominated Barcelona, whereas others pulled off a surprise with that same tactic.

Speaking of the tactic, its typical. Its really just common sense. No Barcelona fan made it a big deal because we have been seeing it for years.

However us supposedly "insecure" Barca fans just criticize how Mourinho is not secure enough to handle his own medicine.
I distinctively remember Madrid using dirty tactics and by dirty and I mean illegal........I am pretty sure including even 10 CBs on the field is perfectly allowed so technically speaking thats clean :lol:........however, diving and kicking players is just completely illegal. I am sure Marcelo exaggerated Alve's little nick in the league game at the Bernabeu to win the penalty and tie the game 1-1........Pep on the other hand was cool about it and said "I didnt see the foul so I cant remember"

In the first 10 minutes, Di Maria ran into Alves and fell down. All the Madrid players surrounded the ref. It was a huuuuge scuffle. Pique was just laughing at Ramos's face, when the Madrid RB tried to justify their actions :lol:

Later, Villa's leg was stomped on by Arbeloa....(mind you, Marcelo did the same sh*t to Pedro in the first leg of CL and injured him......he subbed out for Affelay, who subsequently set up the first goal). Ramos and Arbeloa claimed he was diving but the replay clearly showed Villa wasnt faking it. Arbeloa goes scott free.............but when Pepe gets the first yellow after half an hour, Mourinho races out of the dugout like it was a red....oookay :roll:

Then in extra time after Madrid scored the winning goal, Carvalho did the exact same sh*t to Pique that Di Maria did to Alves. Running into Pique and falling down, pretending he is hurt just to waste time.
But here comes the kicker for us Barca fans though...............when we decided to return the favour, Mourinho stars crying and whining like a little bitch about conspiracy, divers, a team that bullies the ref.....all of sudden, everyone started riding Jose's dick in agreement :lol:

So its completely okay for Madrid to beat us by hook or by crook, but if we adopt the same tactic, its cheating all of a sudden :roll:
After those things happened in the CDR, us Barca fans just overlooked that sh*t. In fact I even applauded Madrid's effort and claimed them to be the worthy winners, which fu**ing hurts to admit. I would be a fool to ignore the fact that they showed utmost passion and determination, whereas our players looked completely tired and shell shocked on top of it.

If you think about it, It was the exact same way in the CL final. Man united actually kept up with Barcelona in the first half, but when the second half started, it was obvious Barcelona wanted it more. Park was too tired from chasing shadows, Valencia was too angry about not seeing the ball even though he didnt make runs to get a pass, Hernandez just disappeared and Alves stole the ball from Giggs on many occasions........I will let that last part sink in :lol:

Even after all the sh*t Madrid did, we were gracious enough to admit defeat and give credit where its due. Our apparently insecure criticisms only started after Mourinho mouthed off.

Furthermore, before the CL first leg, Mourinho whined about Guardiola complaining about referees.....even though Pep just said "pedro's goal was so close its could have been a 50-50 decision".....How does Mourinho have the right to say such audacious things about a manager when he always whines and bitches about the referees? :lol:

No wonder Pep lost his cool and said “Mourinho is the fu**ing boss of the press room. He can have as many off the pitch CL trophies as he wants.....we do our talking on the pitch and tomorrow we will be playing football to try and win the real CL”......which he remarkably did, in the same place where the original dream team had lifted Barca’s first ever CL trophy in 92. He was a part of that team wearing the number 10, playing the same role as Busquets is playing now.

Pep has proven that he is a student of Cruyff’s philosophy of simple football. He even learns from his mistakes and tried to improve the team always......(case in point, taking long shots in the CL final when Man United became super defensive, as opposed to just passing the ball around trying to get in the box against Madrid).....which is why I am even more eager to see what Mourinho's response will be considering Guardiola told him whats up and actually did it too 8)
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panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 01 Jun 2011, 17:27

OKay, i'm not gonna reply to the long ass post, but it seems to me, that your telling me that Barca was the big victim here, never hit, never cheated, never dived, never surrounded the ref, never did anything, and that Real Madrid abused them and it was THEN and only THEN, that Barca adopted these nasty diving tactics - I don't believe it was completely like this, Barca did dive, did pressure the ref, did exagerrate, in all 4 games, and same can be said about Madrid - i'm not buying the we were here to play football and when they started bullying us around we reacted card, because both teams were nasty and theres evidence on video about it ...
If you think about it, It was the exact same way in the CL final. Man united actually kept up with Barcelona in the first half, but when the second half started, it was obvious Barcelona wanted it more.
I'm wondering what game you watch man :lol: No offense, but Man Utd never kept up with Barca, in the first, or in the second half, our first and only shot in the first half was Rooney's goal, that he pulled out of his ass, in an individual demonstration of heart and desire... before, and after that, it was all tiki-taka and Barca could have had 3 goals in because they where passing the sh*t out of Manchester United and doing exactly what they wanted - Man Utd never kept up-

Second, how did you figure out Barca wanted it more? Did they tell you this personally? or through a text message? :lol: im pretty sure they Man United players wanted it way to much because thats the type of team they are, warrriors, desire, etc -

another day, maybe when i have 5 free hours i'll read your post and double check with video everything you're saying is for real-

cause, really its

Barca played football, a humble decent team that never ever cheats dives pressures ref's

Madrid are mean, they treated us wrong, and harmed us emotionally and phyiscially, they hurt our feelings

Barca reacted and in one day learnt how to dive, cheat, surround the ref, create non existing fouls, they NEVER had done this in their lives, but instantaniously became ARTISTS at doing this - from one day to another -

We outplayed them , always, the red card in semi's never affected them, infact they where better with 10 men, and we should have won 5-0

PS: My insecurity argument wasn't directed at you, do you know how many barca fan's are out there? I have many close friends from Barcelona that go to the Camp Nou often, and also am part of a few forums, and many where pulling the :

"With such a rich squad, with so many millions invested, with so much history, and Madrid is gonna play ultra deffensive and with 8 defensive players?"

That is definetly insecurity, because they are right about the squad, but they are also insecure, because in the first 2 games, League and Copa del Rey Madrid didn't let Barca run their usual game, and created more chances than Barcelona :shock: one coming back with 10 players, and the first half of the copa del rey, could have been 0-2 for madrid - so all they had left to say was "i don't understand how the team who has won 9 champions league has to play so defensively" .....
Mourinho's response will be considering Guardiola told him whats up and actually did it too
Then again, he Mourinho told him whats up in the first two clasico's, and the only time Pep could tell him "what was up" was against 10, for a suposedly unixestant foul, so i don't know what you're celebrating and rejoicing about - even in camp nou higuian's goal was called off, so i don't know how only being able to win against 10, and looking for a way to get Pepe a red to be able to play your football, is telling anybody "whats up" or doing it on the field

Even though it stings man you have to admit no body saw Messi on the field when Pepe was on, not on the first league game, or the Copa del Rey final, Messi started doing his thing when Pepe got his red -

I can't wait to see the clasico's next year, now that Real Madrid played 4 matches against Barcelona, won 1, tied 2, and lost 1 with a red that obviously afected them he seems to have figured out the way to beat fcb

PS: No hard feeligns lad
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klc123
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Post by klc123 » 01 Jun 2011, 20:39

OKay, i'm not gonna reply to the long ass post, but it seems to me, that your telling me that Barca was the big victim here, never hit, never cheated, never dived, never surrounded the ref, never did anything, and that Real Madrid abused them and it was THEN and only THEN, that Barca adopted these nasty diving tactics
You clearly didn't read his post fully, because if you did you would have seen;
So its completely okay for Madrid to beat us by hook or by crook, but if we adopt the same tactic, its cheating all of a sudden
Which is by no means saying that Barca didn't cheat, it is just stating that when Real cheat nothing is said, and when Barca cheat the whole world turns on them. Which is unfair regardless.

Anyway...
Man united actually kept up with Barcelona in the first half, but when the second half started
I can't say I agree with this, I never felt that Barca were under any sort of pressure, I was actually hoping United scored to make the game a bit more interesting. For the first 10 minutes United were shutting down Barca like there was no tomorrow, and that was expected. As soon as the Champions League Final adrenaline wore off, the likes of Park and Rooney stopped chasing the shadows, and Barca put in one of their best displays this season. Not only the accuracy of passing, and fluid movement of the ball, but the sheer speed it was been shifting around and forwards was just too much for United to handle.

It was a complete one sided affair, regardless of United coming back to 1-1. As I said in the past, the real Champions League final contest took place over two legs this year with Real Madrid.

shahensha
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Post by shahensha » 01 Jun 2011, 21:09

Thanks for clearing that up Klc, this fellow keep misunderstanding me.
panchester07 wrote:
Mourinho's response will be considering Guardiola told him whats up and actually did it too
Then again, he Mourinho told him whats up in the first two clasico's, and the only time Pep could tell him "what was up" was against 10, for a suposedly unixestant foul, so i don't know what you're celebrating and rejoicing about - even in camp nou higuian's goal was called off, so i don't know how only being able to win against 10, and looking for a way to get Pepe a red to be able to play your football, is telling anybody "whats up" or doing it on the field

Even though it stings man you have to admit no body saw Messi on the field when Pepe was on, not on the first league game, or the Copa del Rey final, Messi started doing his thing when Pepe got his red -

I can't wait to see the clasico's next year, now that Real Madrid played 4 matches against Barcelona, won 1, tied 2, and lost 1 with a red that obviously afected them he seems to have figured out the way to beat fcb

PS: No hard feeligns lad
haha no worries kid

as for the who wanted it more......its elementary dear Watson :lol:

Barcelona attackers were chasing the Man United players down despite the scoreline being 3-1........whereas the warriors like Park just gave up. I always heard that Park had amazing stamina but watch how he just gives up and lets messi score the goal.

The whole chasing barcelona down and pressing the players high up the pitch only lasted for 10 minutes. Madrid made it last for the first half, which is how I based that opinion.

Lastly, you still fail to try and understand what I am saying. Take Pep's words into proper context.........he said he does his talking on the pitch and he will try to win the CL trophy, not the semi-finals against Madrid in particular......his words would have been useless if Man United ended lifting the trophy.

As for Mourinho figuring out how to beat barcelona......maybe he has, I never said Barcelona is unbeatable. I know the fluidity of the whole tiki taka method heavily relies on Messi and Busquets. However, the players know the shady sh*t to expect from Mourinho (apart from legal footballing tactics :lol: ), so best beileve Pep will be fully prepared. That guy never rests.
Last edited by shahensha on 01 Jun 2011, 21:20, edited 1 time in total.
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panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 01 Jun 2011, 21:20

Lastly, you still fail to try and understand what I am saying. Take Pep's words into proper context.........he said he does his talking on the pitch and he will try to win the CL trophy, not the semi-finals against Madrid in particular.
But he said it right before the UCL semifinal, talking about the first leg in bernabeu at 20.45,

he said ill give mourinho his particular champions league trophy in the press hall, i'll talk at 20.45 in the field tomorrow-

he wasn't referring to the final because he's not an astrologist and had no way to find out he was gonna be in the final, not to mention it goes against his humbleness personality he plays so he CLEARLY was reffering to the first leg semifinal - U are the won who have understand Pep's word, not me - and last, how the hell is he gonna get in the final without beating madrid :roll: :?:

so he was clearly saying that he was gonna whoop him and show him whats up then and there, not talking about the final in Wembley vs a different team and different manager- thing that he wasn't even close to doing untill Pepe got his red - the only thing he "showed " the world was that he wasn't able to beat madrid with 11 players on the final, and that dani alves should get a few grammy's :wink:
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klc123
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Post by klc123 » 01 Jun 2011, 21:35

Don't be such a sore loser Panch.

Barcelona aren't indestructible, they will lose games, but just because they lose doesn't mean that a manager has solved the puzzle to beating them. Like wise it is also stupid to say that Barca can't beat an 11 man Real Madrid. It isn't our fault if that every time we beat them or outclass them, that they don't have the discipline to remain with 11 men on the field.

shahensha
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Post by shahensha » 01 Jun 2011, 21:35

hahahahahahaha i dont really like your callous attitude on these forums klc but THANK YOU for point out the elephant in the room

Its too weird that a person who just kept claiming that Barcelona is indestructible since December is very adamant about proving Barcelona's weaknesses now all of a sudden

panchester07 wrote:
Lastly, you still fail to try and understand what I am saying. Take Pep's words into proper context.........he said he does his talking on the pitch and he will try to win the CL trophy, not the semi-finals against Madrid in particular.
But he said it right before the UCL semifinal, talking about the first leg in bernabeu at 20.45,

he said ill give mourinho his particular champions league trophy in the press hall, i'll talk at 20.45 in the field tomorrow-

he wasn't referring to the final because he's not an astrologist and had no way to find out he was gonna be in the final, not to mention it goes against his humbleness personality he plays so he CLEARLY was reffering to the first leg semifinal - U are the won who have understand Pep's word, not me - and last, how the hell is he gonna get in the final without beating madrid :roll: :?:

so he was clearly saying that he was gonna whoop him and show him whats up then and there, not talking about the final in Wembley vs a different team and different manager- thing that he wasn't even close to doing untill Pepe got his red - the only thing he "showed " the world was that he wasn't able to beat madrid with 11 players on the final, and that dani alves should get a few grammy's :wink:
lmfao and pepe shouldnt get a straightjacket? oooook buddy :lol:

hahaha no way panch, i had no idea a team can get to the final without winning the semi :roll:

look at this way so i am not the only won who have understand Pep's words......if Man united had ended up winning, then Mourinho will still have a press room trophy and Pep will have nothing.........then his words at that time were very pointless.

Also, madrid showed that the only way to beat barcelona was cheat the system, pack the field with defenders and drag it out to extra time in the final to win by a goal, against a backline missing puyol and abidal and featured Mascherano with Pique.......your point is very moot. Sure Pep wasnt able to beat Madrid with 11 in the final but it wasnt like Mourinho could beat Pep with a healthy 11 over regulation time.
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klc123
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Post by klc123 » 01 Jun 2011, 21:48

I don't think packing the midfield with players is cheating the system. On the contrary, many could argue that Barca are cheats for committing overkill by completely raping teams in the midfield with possession and short passing if that was the case.

However, hacking the likes of Messi to pieces is ridiculous, players need protection from such primitive "chopper harris" tactics.

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Post by shahensha » 01 Jun 2011, 22:05

klc123 wrote:I don't think packing the midfield with players is cheating the system. On the contrary, many could argue that Barca are cheats for committing overkill by completely raping teams in the midfield with possession and short passing if that was the case.

However, hacking the likes of Messi to pieces is ridiculous, players need protection from such primitive "chopper harris" tactics.
agreed man, but i didnt say cheat the system BY packing the field. I said cheat the system as in di maria and carvalho's diving or Arbeloa stomping on Villa and claiming villa dove and etc.
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desire10
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Post by desire10 » 02 Jun 2011, 06:44

TheBrilliance wrote:Id like to see a team go at them. With no fear, instead of parking the bus.
Arsenal's the only team I've seen have an actual go at this.
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Post by shahensha » 02 Jun 2011, 12:04

there are plenty of teams in la liga who go guns blazing but with regards to the "1-2 touch pass and move" strategy of Barcelona and Arsenal, Villareal comes very close. It kind of explains why Rossi's the first person on the transfer list for Barcelona apparently.

Edit: Today the papers are saying Kun is also an option. Atletico wants to sell Aguero to FCB rather than their rivals Madrid, which is fair enough and excellent for us :lol: Id prefer Kun over Rossi because a messi and aguero partnership can be transfered to the national team as well. its win win situation lol
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Post by klc123 » 02 Jun 2011, 14:28

I would prefer Kun over Rossi. Rossi is a great forward, but Aguero is one of the best strikers in the world for me, and is seriously under-rated.

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Post by panchester07 » 02 Jun 2011, 22:20

Rossi is very skilled, but I think Kun Aguero would be more convenient for barcelona as his movements are exellent, and he's quick as a freaking rabbit -

I consider Kun ballon d' or material, he's great among the league's of Messi, Rooney, Ronaldo, he has what it takes to be the worlds best and he's my favorite player -

He's just amazing, and he could do Pedro's job, 3 times better or more..

Plus what hen said that his understanding with Leo is magnificent, he's clutch, he's used to carrying teams on his shoulders, and if you put him on a big team you better watch out, and you better not cry -

I'm a huge Kun aguero fan, he can leave men behind almost as easily as Messi, his movement is terrific, he plays 200% all the time, with balls and heart like most Argentines, scores and is almost unstopabble - deadly combination to have them both in the same team and Kun just turned 23 today!!

Even if he doesn't go to FCB he will destroy wherever he goes, and if Messi weren't around he would be a serious ballon d' or prospect next season in a big club, even with Messi around, this kid can give him fight because remember we've never seen him in a european power house, he's always doing the dirty work, recovering impossible balls pressuring defense, tracking back, and creating danger out of no where, imagine him in a big team that has the tactic's and movements to create danger constantly -

25+ goals in league next season no doubt!
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klc123
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Post by klc123 » 03 Jun 2011, 00:23

I agree with you, he is a fantastic player. To say that he is 3 times better than Pedro though? Pedro is also 23 coincidently. He is already a world cup winner, and is a starter in arguably the greatest club side in history.

Pedro has scored 20+ goals for Barca in his first two full seasons, and he also provides a fair share of goals. That is a great record for any player.

Aguero got 27 for Atletico this season? That is outstanding, however you have to factor in that Aguero is Atletico's main source of goals. So he naturally going to be scoring more.

No matter how good a team is, they normally begin to take their foot off the gas after a 2-0 lead, and in Barcelona, Messi gets a ridiculous amount of goals, that effectively makes it harder for Pedro and Villa to score, because the whole team is then more passive going forwards. They don't care because they are not greedy, they are glad to see the team winning, but you have to think of that before dismissing the number of goals they score.

I already think Kun has more potential than Rooney, as Rooney has fulfilled his potential, and shown it is not up to scratch with the likes of Messi and Ronaldo. Kun however has time to show how good he is when he comes to a big club.

I'm not holding my breath however...I can't see many players in the future ever surpassing the 50 goal a season mark. The fact that two players done it this season just shows how spoilt we are with the amount of talent in football currently, and what two brilliant players we have competing against each other in rival teams. For the spectator, it is the stuff of dreams.

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