The Final 4.....

Discussion about European club leagues, Champions League and anything in UEFA
Juice
Senior Member
Posts: 245
Joined: 19 Jun 2009, 16:39

Post by Juice » 28 Apr 2011, 21:06

More videos of the ref helping Mourinho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIiYofAAQTc
On another note, those of you who are getting infected by Mourinho's squizofrenia of Barca constantly receiving favors from the ref's, uefa, and spanish fa, i invite you to remember, how Inter won there champions league last year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ7p0OqT ... e=youtu.be
hahah I could get hours of videos where Barcelona gets help from the ref man..
What I guess makes people mad, what makes me mad is
The obviousness of the misstakes that happens when Barcelona is in the knockout stadges. The way the players exaggerate in every situtaions, by diving and roling aroud and also by having the WHOLE team around the reff, all the time. They are supposed to be all about "sportmanship", and they do things like starting the water-sprinkles when Inter moved on to the finals at the camp nou, and saying what ever they want in the media, without any consquense (I know, mourinho..). I for an instance Chelsea would do something like that, they would be banned for life.
The world press coincides in deeming the red card Pepe saw against Barcelona as unfair and decisive in the outcome of the game.

Pete Jenson, The Independent (UK)
"Pepe was shown a red card for a challenge on Dani Alves after the break with the theatrical reaction to the foul ensuring the card was red and not yellow, as it should have been."

Daily Mirror (UK)
"Real defender Pepe went on 62 minutes for a studs-up challenge on Dani Alves. It was a yellow card at worst. But the Barcelona players surrounded Stark like a pack of wolves to demand action. The official panicked and produced red."

Jacopo Gerna, Gazzeta dello Sport (Italy)
"Harsh send-off. Without Pepe's questionable red card on the 61-minute mark the match couldn't have ended the way it did."

L'Equipe (France)
"In a match plagued by errors and confrontations, the most noteworthy was Pepe's send-off."

Marca (Spain)
"An excessive red card for Pepe left Real Madrid with ten men a fourth time against Barcelona."

AS (Spain)
"Stark's mistake was to call a red card when it should have been yellow, but his greatest sin was to deprive us of football."

El Mundo (Spain)
"Once again, Real Madrid ended the match with ten men against Barcelona following Pepe's challenge on Alves, interpreted by the referee as violent when a yellow card would have probably sufficed."

ABC (Spain)
"Stark arrived and made a mess of things by booking Pepe with a red card when it should have been yellow at worst. He killed the tie with one blow. He destroyed Real Madrid and gave wings to a Barcelona side that had begun to give way."

La Gaceta (Spain)
"Germany's worst referee unfairly sent Pepe off and killed the semifinals."

El Pais (Spain)
"Pepe tackled Alves on the right leg. The red card could have been yellow, but referee Wolfgang Stark sent the Madridista off."
Just saying ..

As for rolling on the floor, everyone does it.

So? ..


Also Could I ask one thing?
Honestly now, please try to take of your barca-glases and see it from a natural point of view. Do yall from the bottom of your hearts can't see what Mourinho is trying to say? Dont the things that happened against Chelsea, Inter, Arsenal and Madrid seem weard at all?

The most important key to success is self-confidence.
The most important key to self-confidence is preparation.

panchester07
Veteran Member
Posts: 3849
Joined: 27 Aug 2007, 04:25

Post by panchester07 » 28 Apr 2011, 22:37

Juice, you are concious that the press business is to sell newspaper, and a news paper with "Messi teaches madrid some manners 0-2", will sell much less than what you posted up above, maybe it was a yellow, maybe it was a red, the call changed the match, but hey, barcelona had had more shots and chances by the 60th minute than madrid anyway.. last but not least, as you can see in the multiple videos people have posted ref's make mistakes both way's, and its for mediocre people to blame their losses on the ref, big teams and managers take responsibility for their losses and wins..

Messi scored a valid goal vs Arsenal that was called off, that could have been the difference between the knockout, and Arsenal would have gone through but the best team went through.. There where a few pk's that weren't called for Barca.. Barca gets calls against them like every other team, but what do people chose to focus on, Van Persie's red card, it was a doubtful one, who knows if it was deserved or not, he did slap Dani Alves a few minutes before and fouled Messi with his cleats directly in the chin from behind, but people take the one doubtful call that the ref called in favor for Barca, and feed that ghost of "barcelona constantly receiving help from the ref" ...

Anyhow, everybody here is biased one way or another so i don't think any body can talk, i just want to show that they are two sides of the story or more, and that barcelona is prolly one of the best team's ever, with Arrigo Sacchi's Milan, and Cruyff's Ajax, so try to give some credit to a team that is victim of bad calls as the same as they are benefited by some good calls.
to know Him is to want to know Him more"


"i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not"

Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..'

shahensha
Veteran Member
Posts: 2528
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:38
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 28 Apr 2011, 22:45

I already mentioned how what happened to chelsea was ovrebo being a typical idiot and gave the Bayern vs Fiorentina from last year as an example

Wenger believes that all that has happened is really just accidental, which is what I have been trying to say this whole time.

If Barcelona was favoured against Inter, we would have faced Bayern in the final instead...

As for the play-acting done against Madrid. Its against a mourinho team so I dont really give a damn. Not that I am saying we are completely justified but if a team continues to do shady sh*t after two games, then I expect mine to retaliate in the third one. All this "turn the other cheek" bulls**t only works in story books.
Image

klc123
Veteran Member
Posts: 2820
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 16:26

Post by klc123 » 29 Apr 2011, 00:13

A sliding tackle is not the same as what Pepe done.

I'm not been biased towards Barca, if Masch had done the same thing to a Real player I would say it was a sending off.

I think a lot of people need to review the actual rules in football, as many seem to have stupid misconceptions over what is ok and what is not ok.

Yes Alves rolled around on the floor like a pussy. So what? He wouldn't have a reason to do so if Pepe hadn't done anything wrong in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, when a player is playing as dangerous as that, I like to see players faking and rolling around to make sure the bellend gets sent off. I honestly don't care how "unsportsman-like" that sounds, because the fact is that rolling on the floor to get someone sent off is much better than playing dangerous and putting other players careers on the line.

For everyone who still doesn't seem to believe he was there to play the ball, he was, but playing the ball is different to going in, studs up, all your weight behind it (excessive force, classed as a foul in FIFA regulation rule book, regardless of whether or not the ball is one) and leaving the foot in there to try and take the player, never mind half way up his shin, is something else completely.

Pepe has no one else to blame but himself, if he wasn't such a filthy player who commits so many dangerous fouls, then he wouldn't be getting sent off, and Alves would have no reason to fall over.

If i'm totally honest I don't think it would have changed the result anyway, for nearly the whole of the first half Barca dominated, and towards the end were putting real under real pressure, and that would have continued regardless of the sending off. I don't think Messi would have scored his second goal if Pepe was on the pitch however. He would more likely have been hacked down as he was for the first half.

TheBrilliance
Senior Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 07:40

Post by TheBrilliance » 29 Apr 2011, 02:26

The Barca boys are struggling here haha.

Pepe shouldnt have been sent off. A yellow MAX.

Some of you make it seem like "conning the ref" is a technique that can be worked on etc. Its like its a talent.

Pepe didnt touch Alves. He went for the ball.

He did however show a bit of studdery and he has a bad record.

But for the people who believe that was a sending off man up ffs.

As for the conspiracy. I see a running trend mate. Van Persie vs Barca this year?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SASM_NzheK0 PT1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAW1Q1kU58I PT2

Read the comments. Superb. Man U fans want to strike before the game.

Video less than 12 hours old:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIkmDII-T10

scottS4
Veteran Member
Posts: 851
Joined: 30 Jan 2009, 23:49

Post by scottS4 » 29 Apr 2011, 02:32


nick117
Veteran Member
Posts: 1105
Joined: 27 Aug 2009, 23:14

Post by nick117 » 29 Apr 2011, 03:02

Intent only matters when a foul is committed not when it completely misses save for the obvious punches, head kicks etc. Also he barely went in it clearly didn't have all his weight behind it. You're easily the most biased person here save for pan, klc. I mean you can say that you're not but these situations only happen when barca play and you really only defend/hype them up.

Juice
Senior Member
Posts: 245
Joined: 19 Jun 2009, 16:39

Post by Juice » 29 Apr 2011, 05:38

Yes Alves rolled around on the floor like a pussy. So what?
Why, are you jk? Yes take a look at the rules, It is not okay to dive, what so ever. And its not to exaggerating in a situation in order to manipulate the ref.
Infact there is several rules against it, for an e.g. its concidired as Unsportsmanlike conduct which can be punished in game, and after the game.

And the way the whole team tries to effect the ref decition and make him panic in every situation is also punishable, and not even once did anything happen.
If i'm totally honest I don't think it would have changed the result anyway
Maybe so, but I promise you that Real Madrid would have a way bigger chance with 11 men..

The most important key to success is self-confidence.
The most important key to self-confidence is preparation.

TheBrilliance
Senior Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 07:40

Post by TheBrilliance » 29 Apr 2011, 05:46

Juice wrote:
Yes Alves rolled around on the floor like a pussy. So what?
Why, are you jk? Yes take a look at the rules, It is not okay to dive, what so ever. And its not to exaggerating in a situation in order to manipulate the ref.
Infact there is several rules against it, for an e.g. its concidired as Unsportsmanlike conduct which can be punished in game, and after the game.

And the way the whole team tries to effect the ref decition and make him panic in every situation is also punishable, and not even once did anything happen.
If i'm totally honest I don't think it would have changed the result anyway
Maybe so, but I promise you that Real Madrid would have a way bigger chance with 11 men..
Totally agree. Its shameful klc what some of them do.

Our game is becoming gayer and gayer because of people like that. The rules are:
1) You cannot cause malice on a player (which didnt occur once in this game)
2) Dive. Play act. Exaggerate.

The ability to con is not a skill damn it. Shouldnt be done full stop. You boys are stuggling on the Barca side :P I think you may have to concede defeat haha

shahensha
Veteran Member
Posts: 2528
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:38
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 29 Apr 2011, 08:23

You think its defeat because you carefully select which points to argue. Oldest trick in the book lmfao :lol:

I never said the diving antics seen in the first leg were fair.

Btw, I am still waiting on examples of Barcelona players diving outside of this series of clasicos. I guarantee it is just as much as all these other teams, if not less because I watch every damn game and dont form an opinion from just a couple of them.

On top of that, I have yet to see examples of players constantly surrounding the ref and bitching at him to influence his decision, outside this clasico.

I have seen Man united and Chelsea frustrate Barcelona with their defensive approach in the recent semis but did it fairly without resorting to gay sh*t like stomping on a player when he is down or body checking players without the ball. For some reason Madrid is allowed to bend the rules and play dirty but when Barcelona retaliates, mourinho cries conspiracy and everyone adopts that opinion. What a fu**ing joke.
Image

desire10
Veteran Member
Posts: 689
Joined: 23 Feb 2011, 05:47

Post by desire10 » 29 Apr 2011, 11:03

I've definitely changed my view on Pepe's sending off after studying some more thorough replays. Pepe got all ball, studs or no studs, and Pepe did not infringe the laws of the game in any form. Trust me, I'm a referee under FIFA here in Australia, and there is nothing in the red card warranting sanction about "Exposing your studs in an attempt to play at the ball". A red card can be given for "serious foul play", which Pepe's challenge was far from. Hell, even in the yellow card worthy incidents, the closest thing to Pepe's 'tackle' was "Kicks or attempts to kick an opponent", did he? No, Pepe just tried to play the ball, and he was successful in this. Take it from me, I'm sitting here with my official FIFA law book.
Image
Everything you need, is already inside.

klc123
Veteran Member
Posts: 2820
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 16:26

Post by klc123 » 29 Apr 2011, 13:35

Shahensha, what about busquets in the Champions league semi final last year? Peeking through his fingers to see if the player was sent off :lol:

I'm not saying its right or good that players are diving, but everyone is doing it so I don't understand why everyone is going nuts saying that Barca are cheating scum that cheated their way through the game. Every team has someone or many players that dive. Real- Ronaldo and Carvalhol, United- Nani and Rooney, Chelsea- Drogba and Torres, Liverpool- Gerrard and kuyt. I could go on all day naming players around top teams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-OMZyuFEOw

Watch that, after Pepe makes contact with the ball, his studs go up even further, his legs raises up, and he strikes forwards with it towards alves leg. Both feet are also off the ground which is classed as jumping at an opponent and a two footed challenge.

I don't know why people are arguing this, if alves had left his leg there and had it snapped in two it would have been a red card. The rule book doesn't say anything about "its ok if you win the ball" or "its ok if you don't touch the player" Intent is what matters, and the fact is that this is serious foul play on many accounts with extreme aggression and recklessness. Red Card.

p793
Veteran Member
Posts: 461
Joined: 09 May 2010, 15:31

Post by p793 » 29 Apr 2011, 14:02

Intent is what matters
C'mon dude. You can quite clearly see his intent was to win the ball. Please don't try and say his intent was to hurt Alves as it just blatantly wasn't.
his studs go up even further, his legs raises up, and he strikes forwards with it towards alves leg.
Dont tell me that after he makes contact with the ball in that split second he directed his foot towards Alves in an attempt to hurt him. It's called momentum, and when he's made contact with something (the ball) his foot is going to continue in a straight line.
Both feet are also off the ground which is classed as jumping at an opponent and a two footed challenge.
That's bollocks. How can it be a two footed challenge when only one foot goes in, regardless of whether the other one is off the floor. It was passionate and aggresive, but all within the rules, and deffinately not red card worthy. If I was a manager, I would much rather see my player go in for a challenge like that, than to back off and give them too much respect.

klc123
Veteran Member
Posts: 2820
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 16:26

Post by klc123 » 29 Apr 2011, 14:38

His intent was not to win the ball :?

It was more of he made sure he got the ball and then followed through to take the player. That is not allowed.

I wouldn't mind if his foot carried through in a straight line, but it doesn't it actually gets raised and he only kicks with his foot after the ball is gone and alves leg is in the way.

When a player jumps they have no control of their momentum, that is a foul as it is extremely dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foul_(asso ... _football)

Kicking or attempting to kick an opponent
Tripping or attempting to trip an opponent
Jumping at an opponent
Charging an opponent


Post Reply