El Clasico, 4/10/10

Discussion about European club leagues, Champions League and anything in UEFA

Who will win?

Poll ended at 11 Apr 2010, 16:26

Real Madrid
2
22%
Barcelona
2
22%
Evan is sexy
5
56%
 
Total votes: 9

shahensha
Veteran Member
Posts: 2528
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:38
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 12 Apr 2010, 01:18

Hell yeah, there is absolutely no doubt that Guardiola has brought immense change. Being a product of the system himself and developing under Cruyff, the master of total football, he took this generation back to its glorious Dream Team days of the 90s.
Image

avipbn
Senior Member
Posts: 145
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 01:47

Post by avipbn » 12 Apr 2010, 03:46

Valdes stepped up once again making key saves. How can this man not be called up for the Spanish squad?
Belive it or not Casillas is highly regarded by the presidant of real Madrid, and he has a strong say on spains starting 11. personally I belive riena is the best Spanish goalkeeper but what can we do?

klc123
Veteran Member
Posts: 2820
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 16:26

Post by klc123 » 12 Apr 2010, 13:16

You think Liverpools Keeper is better than Casillas and Valdes? :o

I think Valdes commands his defence better than any keeper in the world besides Van der sar who wins on experience, but Casillas wins a lot of games for Real madrid single handed, no pun intended...

panchester07
Veteran Member
Posts: 3849
Joined: 27 Aug 2007, 04:25

Post by panchester07 » 12 Apr 2010, 15:34

There's no doubt in most people's mind that Casillas is the best in Spain, and probably the best in the World with Julio Cesar and a few others... He clearly has to start for Spain... Valdez had been making a lot mistakes (imo) prior to the Euro 2008, a lot of balls that he threw away, and just making mistakes that cost Barcelona a lot...

But today, I think he should atleast be called up as 2nd keeper.. I'm not sure how many Del Bosque takes to South Africa, is it 2 or 3?¿?

Lastly, Real Madrid president doesn't have sh*t to do with the National Team squad.. Thats bolony..


Xavi and Iniesa might win the World Cup for Spain.. I'm just dumbfounded by the two and how much game they create, also, how consistently they do it..

Xavi is an animal... I'd say give the Ballon d' or to him.

But the surprise factor is always there, let us not forget USA in the Confederations cup..

The two assists on Saturday were Xavi's, to excellent through balls that glided through atleast two defenders, for Messi and Pedro to do the easy part and put it away.... Most strikers would finish those goals, not most Midfielders would give you those passes...

In fact Xavi could have had a 4 assists, with two other brilliant pass he gave to messi, one was a floor through ball that beat albiol's back, and the other one was a repetition of the first goal, only that Messi shot with his preffered left leg.. if it wasn't for Casillas reflexes you know what would have happened... its like if he throws it with his hand.. he has the precision of a swiss watch

END RANT/PRAISE
to know Him is to want to know Him more"


"i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not"

Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..'

shahensha
Veteran Member
Posts: 2528
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:38
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 12 Apr 2010, 16:13

Exactly panchester. Xavi is one of the biggest reasons why Messi dominates with Barcelona but falters with Argentina. Also, there is no doubt that xavi is the best passer of the ball for the past few years. Hell he set up messi for a hat-trick and if it werent for casillas, Messi would have scored one.

A possession dictating midfielder is always important in the latin style of tiki taka football that Argentina, Brazil and Spain play.

Look at liverpool. I am 10000% positive they wouldnt have had such a disgraceful season, if a) Alonso didnt leave or b) Aquilani wasnt out for 70% of season cause he was manufactured by the same glass factory that gave us Robben

Dont get me wrong, the individual talent is still present when Messi dons the albiceleste jersey, but he doesnt have the same impact beacuse the players around him dont understand the concept of total football and fail to contribute in the same way. Thus his runs come to no fruition.

For instance, look at the goal messi scored. Alves made a diagonal run right before messi laid the ball off to xavi. With the defence being temporariliy distracted by Alves' run, and then the quick pass to xavi, they didnt realize Messi was going to bomb into the box looking for a return until it was too late.

Messi doesnt have the same understanding from the Argentinian squad. All the players wont make runs to open up space for him to dribble or pass. Trust me, Messi is a good dribbler but he is not godly. When he has no where to go, he will look for an outlet and if the players dont provide him with one, he will be forced to continue dribbling and will thus eventually lose the ball.

Lastly and most importantly, Messi needs a good midfielder with a deft touch and excellent vision to play quick 1-2s with. He had fabregas during his youth team days. Now during his professional years, he has that in Iniesta and Xavi in FCB, but who does he have for Argentina? uhh Veron

The same washed up 36 year old fellow who didnt work out in Europe? Yup, the same one indeed.

I really believe Messi stopped performing well for Argentina, ever since Riquelme left the team. During Peckermen and Basile's tenure as coach, both Riquelme and Messi were setting each other up for goals consistently.

I mean the stats speak for themself. With Messi playing alongside Riquelme, he has scored most of his goals, lead argentina to the final of copa america 07 and victory in the olympics.

I mean to put it into perspective...........with Maradona at the helm as coach, Messi has only scored one goal for Argentina. Hopefully that changes in the world cup after Maradona takes notes from Pep's 4-2-3-1 formation, learning how to build the team around Messi and use him as a number 10.

lol to think Messi denied playing for the spanish national team to play for his motherland. Spain would have DOMINATED the world cup with a trio of Xavi-Iniesta and Messi as just the tip of the iceberg hahaha

Oh well. Here is to hoping the Macherano-veron-messi trio is effective in midfield. Those three have been confirmed to go to the world cup no matter what.
Image

Met
Senior Member
Posts: 238
Joined: 27 Jun 2008, 22:18

Post by Met » 12 Apr 2010, 16:55

To add on, Argentinian people don't understand how Messi can be so good for Barca and not for Argetina because they don't realise what shahensha has just explained. They kind of shunned him. They call him Spanish when he goes over there. :(

What I don't get is coaches don't seem to try to fit the players into their normal club positions. It's their normal position and know the ins and outs of it. I'd understand moving one or two players but on the whole, the national teams must emulate their best player's club positions for the best players to perform just as well as they do in their clubs.

But again, they only have a few days to get to know each other so the only hope for national teams is to have partnerships already developed at club level, e.g. Xavi Ini, or just immense individual talent.

panchester07
Veteran Member
Posts: 3849
Joined: 27 Aug 2007, 04:25

Post by panchester07 » 12 Apr 2010, 19:09

Shahensa I agree with all of that and in my opinion you hit the nail.. Just one thing, how is Messi gonna deny playing for his country? Maybe you haven't felt it, because India, same with Panama aren't really football powers yet.. But the passion you get to play for your country, is much much greater than you get for your club... I'm A huge Man United fan, since 2001, I remember I watched atleast 90% of the games of the season, and this season I don't think I've missed one... But when Panama plays, be it U-17 U-20, the female or the national team its just something else... Its a different passion, the one that makes you wake up the whole house when they score, its just insane... Thats when Panama plays, imagine football powers like Argentina, no one is gonna deny playing for their country like that... Plus how old was Messi when he had the choice to make 18?? He went to Germany in that world cup I remember clearly... He had just been 4 years in Spain really, he was still way to Argentine, and once you play for the inferior divisiions, there's no going back...

The fact that people migrate to Europe, to get better wages, better development, and competition doesn't mean that they gonna play for that country...

I'm proud that Messi chose to play with his national team, the country that made him mostly what he is today, yes Spain helped a lot, but a true player never sellls his country...

A player that switches countries like that was never really of the first country..

And plus bare in mind that even if Messi was that type of player that will play for another national team, in the time that he had to make the decision, Argentina was playing at the same or maybe better football than Spain (2006), and had and HAS more titles than Spain... So it would be logical to play for a team that has more chances of winning something if you are traitor, but Messi aint a traitor, and Spain didn't have more chances..

Riquelme to the national team ..

And hopefully after a month of playing with Argentina (so by the end of group stages) they will have bonded in just right.. With the friendlies prior to the World Cup, and they are like 2-3 weeks training together before the tournament starts... I think they just need to bond and adapt.. Messi usually travels 14 hours trip from Spain to Buenos Aires, has a huge jetlag, tired, exhausted, and has to play with people he never plays with, that are excellent world class players that will shine in any league, but lack chemistry, comunication, and don't know each other...

And I agree either Maradona is inlove with Veron's bald head or I don't know what, that old dude looks like he's gonna get a heart attack any minute... Itss good that he's disciplined, passionate and has leadership, but gimme a break man.. He doesn't do crap!!
to know Him is to want to know Him more"


"i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not"

Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..'

shahensha
Veteran Member
Posts: 2528
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:38
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 12 Apr 2010, 19:28

Oh I agree that it would shameful of Messi to forget his roots and join Spain. I was just making a mouth-watering what if joke. Come to think of it, considering Messi and Xavi are in the form of their life, putting them together for the world cup would be a harsh joke lol

I am 1000% sure we both are rooting for Argentina and Spain to do well in the world cup (unless you also favour England cause they have rooney from man u). I hope things turn around for them. Di Maria has been excellent since his surfacing at the olympics. Higuain and tevez have been in jaw-dropping goal scoring form. Hopefully everyone in the blue & white puts in a fantastic performance.


Yeah, I agree about Veron. He has the discipline and vision, but not the quickness of the mind and feet that xavi possesses.

Also I really believe that Pep has changed the formation from 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1 to accomodate for Messi playing in the middle as a true number 10 so that it really helps him for the national team.......okay maybe it was to get the best out of Messi, but considering that is the role Argentina want him to play on the field, Pep has just killed two birds with one stone! What a tactical genius

Speaking of tactical genius........was anyone else shocked to see Pep use Alves as a right winger in the first half and then Maxwell as a left winger for the second (thank goodness for the versatility of captain tarzan)? It really helped because Puyol and Pique were immense in nullifying Cronaldo's threat on the left wing during the first half.

Ofcourse Maxwell only played at the left wing for a short time before Iniesta moved in and then xavi prolly yelled "omg, you are finally on the field! Man I am getting pissed off bossing this midfield all by myself, while Gago humps me like a dog....did you see how many times Keita and Busquets fu**ed up my pass dawg?!". I really saw a change in xavi's attitude as soon as iniesta came in. He wasnt pissed off and aggravated as he looked during the first half.
Image

klc123
Veteran Member
Posts: 2820
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 16:26

Post by klc123 » 12 Apr 2010, 22:29

I'm a firm believer that Xavi and Iniesta have evolved the ability to read eachothers mind. :shock:

Messi is just unplayable when he gets the right service, and even when he doesn't he is still impossible to stop on occassions.

FuturProo1996
Sophomore Member
Posts: 32
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 20:02

Post by FuturProo1996 » 12 Apr 2010, 23:24

For instance, look at the goal messi scored. Alves made a diagonal run right before messi laid the ball off to xavi. With the defence being temporariliy distracted by Alves' run, and then the quick pass to xavi, they didnt realize Messi was going to bomb into the box looking for a return until it was too late.
jaja dat was all luck dudes maddrid r bettr :evil:

shahensha
Veteran Member
Posts: 2528
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:38
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 12 Apr 2010, 23:29

I dont think luck was the reason Madrid's undefeated streak at home since Feb 08 was broken.
Image

panchester07
Veteran Member
Posts: 3849
Joined: 27 Aug 2007, 04:25

Post by panchester07 » 13 Apr 2010, 00:15

shahensha wrote:I dont think luck was the reason Madrid's undefeated streak at home since Feb 08 was broken.
Only they lost to Barca 2-6 on May 2009 in bernabeu (home) ... :wink:

Oh Boy, I'm tired of seeing Iker's expression when he has to take the ball from the back of the net.. The same one he's been using since Dinho scored those 2 goals in that fantastic game where he broke Sergio Ramos Spine... anyone Remember haha? 0-3 was the score, remember like yesterday .. Poor Iker.. :S... haha... That was the day Bernabeu clapped for the best, Ronaldinho Gaucho

Check out his PRICELESS expression, he's like saying sound one please shoot me ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGuibCFe ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q6yS3l83A0
to know Him is to want to know Him more"


"i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not"

Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..'

klc123
Veteran Member
Posts: 2820
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 16:26

Post by klc123 » 13 Apr 2010, 01:16

I've seen that magic before, but I didn't know that the Real Madrid fans actually applauded him :shock:

That's fu**ing amazing.

shahensha
Veteran Member
Posts: 2528
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:38
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 13 Apr 2010, 02:46

Xavi received the same recognition in the previous game, whereas when Messi scored the goal they just started yelling "Die messi! die messi!" hahaha
Image

2brown347
Veteran Member
Posts: 3339
Joined: 30 Oct 2007, 04:15

Post by 2brown347 » 13 Apr 2010, 05:43

I'm not going to deny that Xavi is the king of the mid field in soccer today, but I also think people give him too much credit for what Messi does. This is strictly because Messi still produces 2-3 goal performances without Xavi. I'd almost say Xavi needs Messi more than Messi needs Xavi because without Messi he'd just be a mid who completes a lot of passes that don't result in much.

IMO the reason that Messi isn't as good for his nation:
1) It's hard to produce the quality show when you have a different cast every shoot.
2) He doesn't play the style of football that Barca which is a style that fits him like a glove.
3) He really hasn't been as bad as people make it out to be, but since he's been so good with his club he'll get that extra judgement.

Heck it even took Ronaldo a little while before he started dominating for Brazil

Post Reply