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Discussion about European club leagues, Champions League and anything in UEFA
shahensha
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 17 Feb 2010, 00:23

klc123 wrote:Ronaldo has better finishing than Messi.

Ronaldo shots on target this season - 44
Goals - 17

Messi shots on target - 61
Goals - 21

So their goal per shots on target ratio is very very close with Ronaldo marginally ahead.

But when you consider that Ronaldo takes on shots with both feet instead of the only foot Messi uses, and he also takes free kicks and shots from distance. Its obvious to see Ronaldos finishing is MUCH better than Messis.
Alright since their goal/shots is roughly the same, I guess the only way to logically differentiate between them in this category, would be the ratio of On target shots....in all competitions ofcourse (albeit messi was in more competitions this season but, just check it out)

Cronaldo
Total shots: 106
Shots on target: 44
Ratio: .42

Messi
Total Shots: 121
Shots on target:61
Ratio: 0.50

The numbers speak for themselves, eh?

Anyways, a fellow poster said that comparing statistics is not really good idea here, which is not what I am debating. I am just pointing those stats out.

My debate here is to once again debunk your ignorant beliefs about Messi's ability.

First it was messi isnt a game winner or he doesnt score with his head, when he clearly scored the game winning goal against deportivo recently.......with a header.

Then it was, messi doesnt take free-kicks. He actually does. He can score and assists with those too.

Then it was no shooting from long distances. Uhh, he has scored quite a few long distance shots. The winner against Osasuna last season and goals against Tenerife, Racing and Getafe this season to give a few examples, from memory.

Now its, that he doesnt take shots with the right foot. Seriously, have you not seen him take shots with the right foot, let alone score? Really, I have seen him do it plenty of times. He has finished alot of goals with his right foot too. All classy ones that any Barca fan would remember...

His goal against Atletico this season at home was a right footed shot....from the edge of the box.

I already mentioned his hat-trick against Atletico where he received a standing ovation from the Madridistas...........he finished it with his right foot.

Thats one of the examples I gave you when I called bulls**t out on your "messi doesnt win games by himself" argument. I gave another example for that too and that was the gamewinner he scored after being subbed on against Racing.

you dont remember that goal? How? That was the goal that arguably kept Barca's title dreams stable..........it was the 5000th goal of Barca's history....Really? Its exceptional though, given the circumstances because I gurantee you Cronaldo WOULD NOT have done the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOYZBOdR ... re=related

Also if you notice the first goal, he basically won the game by himself....with his off-foot.....

klc123 wrote: You can argue with me all day but when you ask experienced people who have played football at a high standard and are still involved in football in managing, and most importantly aren't so immature that they put ronaldo down merely because they do not like him, like many people on this forum do, they will all tell you that Ronaldo is by far the best player on the planet. Of course its all a matter of opinion, but generally when the majority of people have one opinion, it takes to become fact.
First offf, its easy to do so because you dont know your facts.

Secondly, you do realize Messi holds the record for most votes in Ballon D'Or History? That means a majority of people in charge had the opinion that Messi is better......and by what you said, apparently thats a fact.
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dream_on_go_pro
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Post by dream_on_go_pro » 17 Feb 2010, 03:06

If you put Zidane at his best vs. them they would be nothing Zizou was the greatest.

panchester07
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007, 04:25

Post by panchester07 » 17 Feb 2010, 03:10

dream_on_go_pro wrote:If you put Zidane at his best vs. them they would be nothing Zizou was the greatest.
Whatever does that have to do? There different players totally.. You can't compare different positions cause they're roles in the game are totally different..

What you can do, is this..
Better Dribbler: Messi..
Better Header: Ronaldo..
Better Touch : Zizou...

But why am I telling you this, this is so off-topic!
to know Him is to want to know Him more"


"i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not"

Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..'

dream_on_go_pro
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 19:29

Post by dream_on_go_pro » 17 Feb 2010, 03:14

Well the arguement is pointless and winnerless anyway i figured i could make a pointless comment too about how my favorite player is the greatest.

panchester07
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007, 04:25

Post by panchester07 » 17 Feb 2010, 03:20

dream_on_go_pro wrote:Well the arguement is pointless and winnerless anyway i figured i could make a pointless comment too about how my favorite player is the greatest.
Not really pointless, I thing somepeople need to get cleared up on who's better than who, and why, with logical reasons... I thnk Ronaldo are messi are similar positions, and both the best maybe #1 and #2, and its worth debating who's better than who man...

Your stuff, was pretty pointless though :lol:
to know Him is to want to know Him more"


"i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not"

Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..'

dream_on_go_pro
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Posts: 199
Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 19:29

Post by dream_on_go_pro » 17 Feb 2010, 03:28

I know it was :D Ok so since I said it i guess i will make a contribution to this arguement. People hate Ronaldo because he is naturally blessed with skill and athleticism. He doesn't use these for the benefit of others, but rather for himself. Everyone loves Messi because he is the Rocky Balboa of football. He is constantly working hard and giving it his all. He keeps getting back up.

As far as statistics they are basically even and you are all just nitpicking to gain an advantage. Messi= more effective dribbler Ronaldo= more effective with tricks and speed BUT both have standout qualities such as long-distance shots, hard work, effectriveness, goals, and many of these cannot be compared. We will never have a clear cut winner from stats, you can only judge them against each other after their careers have ended or one has risen up.

nick117
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Post by nick117 » 17 Feb 2010, 03:31

The funny part about football players is you really can't judge them and find a better one even long after they have stopped playing. Pele vs maradona anyone i'm pretty sure no1 has settled this yet and it won't happen EVER.

panchester07
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Post by panchester07 » 17 Feb 2010, 03:42

You just judge them by their awards, I.E Messi won more last season so he was better..

Also, comparing stats is Massive to judge two players..

And last Consistency, if a player is good for a long time, or if he just has 1-2 great seasons and the rest are average - good..

Those three factors.. Who won more, who scored/assisted more, and how long they've been doing work...
to know Him is to want to know Him more"


"i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not"

Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..'

klc123
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Posts: 2820
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 16:26

Post by klc123 » 17 Feb 2010, 13:50

shahensha wrote:
klc123 wrote:Ronaldo has better finishing than Messi.

Ronaldo shots on target this season - 44
Goals - 17

Messi shots on target - 61
Goals - 21

So their goal per shots on target ratio is very very close with Ronaldo marginally ahead.

But when you consider that Ronaldo takes on shots with both feet instead of the only foot Messi uses, and he also takes free kicks and shots from distance. Its obvious to see Ronaldos finishing is MUCH better than Messis.
Alright since their goal/shots is roughly the same, I guess the only way to logically differentiate between them in this category, would be the ratio of On target shots....in all competitions ofcourse (albeit messi was in more competitions this season but, just check it out)

Cronaldo
Total shots: 106
Shots on target: 44
Ratio: .42

Messi
Total Shots: 121
Shots on target:61
Ratio: 0.50

The numbers speak for themselves, eh?

Anyways, a fellow poster said that comparing statistics is not really good idea here, which is not what I am debating. I am just pointing those stats out.

My debate here is to once again debunk your ignorant beliefs about Messi's ability.

First it was messi isnt a game winner or he doesnt score with his head, when he clearly scored the game winning goal against deportivo recently.......with a header.

Then it was, messi doesnt take free-kicks. He actually does. He can score and assists with those too.

Then it was no shooting from long distances. Uhh, he has scored quite a few long distance shots. The winner against Osasuna last season and goals against Tenerife, Racing and Getafe this season to give a few examples, from memory.

Now its, that he doesnt take shots with the right foot. Seriously, have you not seen him take shots with the right foot, let alone score? Really, I have seen him do it plenty of times. He has finished alot of goals with his right foot too. All classy ones that any Barca fan would remember...

His goal against Atletico this season at home was a right footed shot....from the edge of the box.

I already mentioned his hat-trick against Atletico where he received a standing ovation from the Madridistas...........he finished it with his right foot.

Thats one of the examples I gave you when I called bulls**t out on your "messi doesnt win games by himself" argument. I gave another example for that too and that was the gamewinner he scored after being subbed on against Racing.

you dont remember that goal? How? That was the goal that arguably kept Barca's title dreams stable..........it was the 5000th goal of Barca's history....Really? Its exceptional though, given the circumstances because I gurantee you Cronaldo WOULD NOT have done the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOYZBOdR ... re=related

Also if you notice the first goal, he basically won the game by himself....with his off-foot.....

klc123 wrote: You can argue with me all day but when you ask experienced people who have played football at a high standard and are still involved in football in managing, and most importantly aren't so immature that they put ronaldo down merely because they do not like him, like many people on this forum do, they will all tell you that Ronaldo is by far the best player on the planet. Of course its all a matter of opinion, but generally when the majority of people have one opinion, it takes to become fact.
First offf, its easy to do so because you dont know your facts.

Secondly, you do realize Messi holds the record for most votes in Ballon D'Or History? That means a majority of people in charge had the opinion that Messi is better......and by what you said, apparently thats a fact.
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Thanks brown.

So so so stupid...

I will happily admit Messi was the best player last season. This this is this season and as of this season Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

Its like talking to a ignorant moronic brick wall that regurgitates facts that i have already talked about and twists them around. Just don't post again. Ever.

shahensha
Veteran Member
Posts: 2528
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:38
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 17 Feb 2010, 14:12

klc123 wrote:
shahensha wrote:
klc123 wrote:Ronaldo has better finishing than Messi.

Ronaldo shots on target this season - 44
Goals - 17

Messi shots on target - 61
Goals - 21

So their goal per shots on target ratio is very very close with Ronaldo marginally ahead.

But when you consider that Ronaldo takes on shots with both feet instead of the only foot Messi uses, and he also takes free kicks and shots from distance. Its obvious to see Ronaldos finishing is MUCH better than Messis.
Alright since their goal/shots is roughly the same, I guess the only way to logically differentiate between them in this category, would be the ratio of On target shots....in all competitions ofcourse (albeit messi was in more competitions this season but, just check it out)

Cronaldo
Total shots: 106
Shots on target: 44
Ratio: .42

Messi
Total Shots: 121
Shots on target:61
Ratio: 0.50

The numbers speak for themselves, eh?

Anyways, a fellow poster said that comparing statistics is not really good idea here, which is not what I am debating. I am just pointing those stats out.

My debate here is to once again debunk your ignorant beliefs about Messi's ability.

First it was messi isnt a game winner or he doesnt score with his head, when he clearly scored the game winning goal against deportivo recently.......with a header.

Then it was, messi doesnt take free-kicks. He actually does. He can score and assists with those too.

Then it was no shooting from long distances. Uhh, he has scored quite a few long distance shots. The winner against Osasuna last season and goals against Tenerife, Racing and Getafe this season to give a few examples, from memory.

Now its, that he doesnt take shots with the right foot. Seriously, have you not seen him take shots with the right foot, let alone score? Really, I have seen him do it plenty of times. He has finished alot of goals with his right foot too. All classy ones that any Barca fan would remember...

His goal against Atletico this season at home was a right footed shot....from the edge of the box.

I already mentioned his hat-trick against Atletico where he received a standing ovation from the Madridistas...........he finished it with his right foot.

Thats one of the examples I gave you when I called bulls**t out on your "messi doesnt win games by himself" argument. I gave another example for that too and that was the gamewinner he scored after being subbed on against Racing.

you dont remember that goal? How? That was the goal that arguably kept Barca's title dreams stable..........it was the 5000th goal of Barca's history....Really? Its exceptional though, given the circumstances because I gurantee you Cronaldo WOULD NOT have done the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOYZBOdR ... re=related

Also if you notice the first goal, he basically won the game by himself....with his off-foot.....


klc123 wrote: You can argue with me all day but when you ask experienced people who have played football at a high standard and are still involved in football in managing, and most importantly aren't so immature that they put ronaldo down merely because they do not like him, like many people on this forum do, they will all tell you that Ronaldo is by far the best player on the planet. Of course its all a matter of opinion, but generally when the majority of people have one opinion, it takes to become fact.
First offf, its easy to do so because you dont know your facts.

Secondly, you do realize Messi holds the record for most votes in Ballon D'Or History? That means a majority of people in charge had the opinion that Messi is better......and by what you said, apparently thats a fact.
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
. . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
. . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
. . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
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. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../
. . . .. . .\`~,. . ..“~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../
. . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-”
. . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`

Thanks brown.

So so so stupid...

I will happily admit Messi was the best player last season. This this is this season and as of this season Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

Its like talking to a ignorant moronic brick wall that regurgitates facts that i have already talked about and twists them around. Just don't post again.


Listen dimwit, I can post as many times I like, you cant stop me.

Secondly, you are the one calling others ignorant. I am just having a debate and pointing out your ignorance about Messi's footballing abilities. Even if I am regurgitating facts, they are facts nonetheless, not spraying false bulls**t like you.

If you dont have a rebuttal to my points above in italics, then just shut the fu** up. You dont really need to waste your posts by resorting to name calling and making text images cause you have no other option.
Image

klc123
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Posts: 2820
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 16:26

Post by klc123 » 17 Feb 2010, 14:30

I didnt' make it, i copied it from brown hense the "thanks brown".

Now lets it straight. Your the only person on this topic who has said "your spraying bulls**t" or "your full of sh*t" just because of what someone else has said or their opinion on something.

I completely dissagree with panchester and Brown, however at no point have they called me "bullshitters" and likewise i haven't said their full of shti either, like you are.

None of my facts or wrong. They are all 100% correct. Nothing i say is bulls**t, i wouldn't believe Ronaldo was the best in the world if i had no reason to, because un like you im not as immature to look at someones personality and judge them on that when im supposedly judging on how good a footballer they are.

Take you immature hate of ronaldo and ignorant gay love of Messi somewhere else because you haven't got the maturity to deal with a proper debate without resorting to insults.

Do yourself a favour and go grow up before you start posting again, because at the moment your just showing yourself up. I hate to be condesending but you honestly do need to sort it out.

shahensha
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Posts: 2528
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:38
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Post by shahensha » 17 Feb 2010, 14:48

lmao wow that post was a good example of the "pot calling the kettle black".

I never mentioned anything about hating Cronaldo for his personality nor anything about passing judgement on how he behaves. Nor did I ever say I hate cronaldo. If you actually focus on whats being said, rather than just making up facts and insulting others, then we wont be posting off-topic crap like this and continue on with the debate.

I am just talking about how your notions of Messi are totally false. Thats all I have been disproving so far. That he is not a game-winner, that he cant score from the air, that he cant take free-kicks. That he cant score from distance. That he cant score with his off-foot. All those are totally false.

Even when you said Cronaldo has scored more goals internationally last season than Messi ever did in his career...........not really. Cronaldo has no goals scored for Portugal last season, whereas Messi was top scorer for Argentina...

I dont understand why you have to get so defensive and start sh*t-talking, instead of actually debating like a mature human being with concrete facts.

Also you implied brown is ignorant with "Ignorance is bliss" comment before your rebuttal a few posts ago. Granted you didnt call him a bullshitter, you arent as clean as you might think.

You have barely touched my recent points on messi's abilities and just dove straight in to calling me stupid. Bravo.....you just gave me an excellent example on how to have
klc123 wrote: the maturity to deal with a proper debate without resorting to insults.
:roll: I wish EF had a slow clap emoticon...

Seriously, dont get your panties in a bunch and focus on whats being discussed about the topic on hand.

You can insult me all you like because I dont give a fu**, but it just makes it clearly evident that you are taking the easy and immature way out of the debate.
Image

NewBornProdigy
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Joined: 23 May 2008, 19:51

Post by NewBornProdigy » 17 Feb 2010, 16:08

Guys you are an embarressment, seriously klc you gotta learn something
Its like talking to a ignorant moronic brick wall that regurgitates facts that i have already talked about and twists them around. Just don't post again.
Despite your claims, that was not a statement of a mature and calm human

Here's a lesson:
-A mature person doesn't spend every 20 seconds calling everyone who he doesn't like immature
-A mature person can learn to let things go
-A mature person doesn't always have to be right
-A mature person understands that other peoples opinions deserve credit
-A mature person can use sophisticated answers instead of insults
-A mature person knows its not a big deal being mature... Or immature

I'm deadly serious, you need to start paying attention to a few of those 'lesson points'

PM me if you disagree with what I'm telling you and I'll tell you straight what needs to be said or else take note and get on with the thread

Hen your not totally a saint either

Now to everyone

The mods would have a feild day if we decided to lock all topics that developed into flaming matches, but we have faith that you guys won't let every topic go to sh*t with strong opinions and stubborn and aggresive perpetrators

But you do... And soon were gonna have to be di**heads, for the sake of saving the site were gonna have to destroy the healthy debate side of the site

Messi or Ronaldo debate all you want, its intresting to read... But 'your an ignorant fu**'... 'no your an ignorant fu**'... isn't

Now get on with it or forget about it
Last edited by NewBornProdigy on 17 Feb 2010, 16:20, edited 1 time in total.
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klc123
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Post by klc123 » 17 Feb 2010, 16:27

:roll:

Quite frankly i know im immature and probably a bit over-confident in myself, whatever else you want to brand me, whatever. But the reality is when people start insulting me then im going to stick up for myself and its unfortunate that most of the time that ends up in my saying worse things that were said to me and it esculates.

What do you want me to do? just ignor every single post that attacks me? Ive tried that and then people start saying that im ignoring them because i know their right, if i try and debate against them using facts then they apparently my facts are bulls**t reguardless of where i have gotten them from, you tell me what i should do because clearly i have no idea how to respond to people insulting me on this forum without provoking an arugment.

And to show my point, my source is soccernet.espn.go.com

Ronaldo International goals 2008-2009 :
9

Messi International goals 2008-2009:
2

Messi total International goals of career:
8
That 8 goals excludes his 2 olympic goals, but i don't consider olympic goals to be worth representatives seeing as they are not at the same level as world cup or euro cup.

So i hate to be the smart arse but clearly im not talking "complete bulls**t"

NewBornProdigy
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Post by NewBornProdigy » 17 Feb 2010, 16:40

klc123 wrote:Quite frankly i know im immature and probably a bit over-confident in myself, whatever else you want to brand me, whatever. But the reality is when people start insulting me then im going to stick up for myself and its unfortunate that most of the time that ends up in my saying worse things that were said to me and it esculates.

What do you want me to do? just ignor every single post that attacks me? Ive tried that and then people start saying that im ignoring them because i know their right, if i try and debate against them using facts then they apparently my facts are bulls**t reguardless of where i have gotten them from, you tell me what i should do because clearly i have no idea how to respond to people insulting me on this forum without provoking an arugment
Ignore every single part of a post that insults you, if a post does nothing but insult you, ask them nicley to re-itterate the point they were trying to get across without offending you... Which makes them seem alot stupider than you might think

Extremities of ignorance by other people is never an excuse to sink to their level... Something a mature person has to learn :wink:

I dunno its easier said than done, cause I know you feel passionate about your beleifs, but try be more humble towards peoples opinions

Your half Irish haha, surely part of you knows how to relax :D
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