Iraq beats the Auzzies!

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truesocceroo
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Post by truesocceroo » 20 Jul 2007, 06:59

The Aussie coach had it right - he said that a number of the players weren't interested in being there. They wanted to be on holiday instead.
That is bulls**t. Of course by my name you can say im being biased but i will tell you what i and most people in Australia know. The coach never had it right, he was an assistant to the greatest ever coach, Hiddink, and he does not compare to him. The players are there and ready to play, and there is no possible way he can say they don't want to be there, he has no proof and that is a complete lie, agreeing with him is just as bad. What the players have been saying for a long time is that they are overworked, but they always turn up for the most important games, when their country really needs them. Some of them have played constantly from the 05/06 season, the world cup, and still in the 06/07 season, and now the Asian cup. That is alot, no matter what anyone says. How many Iraqi players have played that much at that high level in their whole lives? probably none. Graham Arnold is not a great coach, in fact he is hated by most Australian fans. I don't think Advocat will do much better, but you never know. I agree that Iraq played much better, and Australia's passing and defending was laughably bad, and Iraq definitely deserved to win. The players might have played badly, but poor form doesn't prove they didn't want to be there, so please don't make comments about things you know nothing about.

ratherton
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Post by ratherton » 20 Jul 2007, 14:50

Are you saying I know nothing about the attitudes in general of overpaid, overrated, lady boy Premier League footballers ??
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truesocceroo
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Post by truesocceroo » 20 Jul 2007, 15:10

no im saying that you know nothing about the Australian national team, and that is why you are arguing false points

ratherton
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Post by ratherton » 20 Jul 2007, 16:04

I know the Socceroos have ideas about their station after getting to one World Cup finals on a penalty shoot out against very average opposition.

I also know that a number of the team are Premiership players and players like Viduka are well know for being self-centred prima donas. With that in mind, I find it very easy to believe what the coach said.

He didn't say all players, he said some and that is also what I wrote.

Sadly, its a fact of international football that players in all the major leagues are more interested in playing for their clubs than their countries.

So which points are false?
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truesocceroo
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Post by truesocceroo » 21 Jul 2007, 14:01

you cant say that it is 100% true that viduka is self centered at all. What actions by him or other socceroos players prove that they are self centered, give me an example. Uruguay are not average, they are a quality team, and winning on penalty shootouts isn't any easier, a victory is a victory whether its 90 minutes or 120 minutes, so all that proves is that australia were fit enough to last that whole time. And of course, your final and most ridiculous point,
ts a fact of international football that players in all the major leagues are more interested in playing for their clubs than their countries.
Please explain to me how that is a proven fact, that really is a ridiculous thing to say. It is an honour to play for your country, and most players give their all and dream of playing for their country.

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Post by thisisdard » 21 Jul 2007, 15:04

You have to admire the Iraqis. What mental spirit! More than half of them have had relatives who were killed in the Iraq violence but they still give it their all. :wink:

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Post by KPatel » 21 Jul 2007, 15:09

thisisdard wrote:You have to admire the Iraqis. What mental spirit! More than half of them have had relatives who were killed in the Iraq violence but they still give it their all. :wink:
Is that a stereotypical generalisation or a fact?

ratherton
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Post by ratherton » 21 Jul 2007, 15:18

truesocceroo wrote:you cant say that it is 100% true that viduka is self centered at all. What actions by him or other socceroos players prove that they are self centered, give me an example. Uruguay are not average, they are a quality team, and winning on penalty shootouts isn't any easier, a victory is a victory whether its 90 minutes or 120 minutes, so all that proves is that australia were fit enough to last that whole time. And of course, your final and most ridiculous point,
ts a fact of international football that players in all the major leagues are more interested in playing for their clubs than their countries.
Please explain to me how that is a proven fact, that really is a ridiculous thing to say. It is an honour to play for your country, and most players give their all and dream of playing for their country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sport/footba ... 325992.stm

Viduka is just a big sulking gimp. When he decides to actually try properly, he is an excellent player but that isn't often enough. As soon as things go wrong on the field he goes missing.

Uruguay are average. No better than a top 20-30 team in the world, although compared to American Samoa they can be considered quality. If you think anything is proved by winning a penalty shootout then you are clueless. Everyone acknowledges that a shootout is nothing more than a lottery.

Do you really think its a ridiculous point about players wanting to play international football?? Did you watch the World Cup last year??

The money in club football is far too high nowadays so that is where players interests lie. Supporters still have pride in their country (apart from the new fan idiots who support whoever is trendy rather than their own country) but you are sadly mistaken if you think players have the same opinion.

Why do you think players "retire from international football"? Its because they want to play more club football. Friendly matches are a waste of time now as the top players are too concerned about risking injury. Club managers are always complaining about losing players but how many players do you ever here complain about not being allowed to play for their country. There are a few but they are in the minority because they don't want to upset the people who pay their wages.

In the last 5 years I've watched international football from friendlies to World Cups in England, South Africa, USA, Portugal, Spain, Austria, Poland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Croatia, Macedonia, Israel, Estonia and Holland. The standard is appalling because players aren't as interested in playing for their country as they are for their clubs.
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thisisdard
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Post by thisisdard » 22 Jul 2007, 05:14

KPatel wrote:
thisisdard wrote:You have to admire the Iraqis. What mental spirit! More than half of them have had relatives who were killed in the Iraq violence but they still give it their all. :wink:
Is that a stereotypical generalisation or a fact?
I'm not kidding around. Half the squad and many of the staff really do have family members, relatives, or friends who died during the war or the violence after it. Which is why, I *guess*, they dedicate all their matches to them. Go to wikipedia. Iraq is now at the top (yes, 1st place) of the Group A list of the AFC tournament and has already beaten off some of the higher ranked teams. Quite a miracle of the human spirit, in my opinion. They don't let deaths of their loved ones demoralise them but they choose to rise up instead.

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Post by ratherton » 22 Jul 2007, 08:37

This is what I was talking about.

The tournament has given the Iraqi team something positive to try to acheive and it really means everything to them. Did I see they made it through the quarter final stage now? It is a classic example of players giving everything for their country in a sporting event.

In a way it is similar to the 1998 World Cup when Croatia finished 3rd. It was their first tournament since the breakup of Yugoslavia and the pride of the nation meant everything to the players. Slavan Bilic (now the national team manager) played with a hip injury (a stress fracture I think) which is now still causing him problems today. He has to drive a 4x4 (SUV for you Americans) as he struggles to get in and out of low cars.
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thisisdard
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Post by thisisdard » 22 Jul 2007, 11:01

ratherton wrote:This is what I was talking about.

The tournament has given the Iraqi team something positive to try to acheive and it really means everything to them. Did I see they made it through the quarter final stage now? It is a classic example of players giving everything for their country in a sporting event.

In a way it is similar to the 1998 World Cup when Croatia finished 3rd. It was their first tournament since the breakup of Yugoslavia and the pride of the nation meant everything to the players. Slavan Bilic (now the national team manager) played with a hip injury (a stress fracture I think) which is now still causing him problems today. He has to drive a 4x4 (SUV for you Americans) as he struggles to get in and out of low cars.
True. Have you also noticed that not only Iraq (which was not expected to make it out alive because Australia was in their group) has been making upstarts. Many of the weaker teams which were expected to die quickly to the Asian giants are making impressive results.

Indonesia 0 - Korea 1 (another wiki bump. :lol: )

Koreans win but they cant demolish a team which is 100+ levels below them. :shock: You would have expected a score like 0 - 8 and to think the Indonesians have no players in major leagues and Korea does but they couldn't totally silence them even with a lot of advantages. And to think Korea played in the WC 2002 so impressively...

Although defeated, it is the Indonesians, not the Koreans who gained the most confidence out of the match.

truesocceroo
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Post by truesocceroo » 22 Jul 2007, 11:55

truesocceroo wrote:
you cant say that it is 100% true that viduka is self centered at all. What actions by him or other socceroos players prove that they are self centered, give me an example. Uruguay are not average, they are a quality team, and winning on penalty shootouts isn't any easier, a victory is a victory whether its 90 minutes or 120 minutes, so all that proves is that australia were fit enough to last that whole time. And of course, your final and most ridiculous point,
Quote:
ts a fact of international football that players in all the major leagues are more interested in playing for their clubs than their countries.

Please explain to me how that is a proven fact, that really is a ridiculous thing to say. It is an honour to play for your country, and most players give their all and dream of playing for their country.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sport/footba ... 325992.stm

Viduka is just a big sulking gimp. When he decides to actually try properly, he is an excellent player but that isn't often enough. As soon as things go wrong on the field he goes missing.

Uruguay are average. No better than a top 20-30 team in the world, although compared to American Samoa they can be considered quality. If you think anything is proved by winning a penalty shootout then you are clueless. Everyone acknowledges that a shootout is nothing more than a lottery.

Do you really think its a ridiculous point about players wanting to play international football?? Did you watch the World Cup last year??

The money in club football is far too high nowadays so that is where players interests lie. Supporters still have pride in their country (apart from the new fan idiots who support whoever is trendy rather than their own country) but you are sadly mistaken if you think players have the same opinion.

Why do you think players "retire from international football"? Its because they want to play more club football. Friendly matches are a waste of time now as the top players are too concerned about risking injury. Club managers are always complaining about losing players but how many players do you ever here complain about not being allowed to play for their country. There are a few but they are in the minority because they don't want to upset the people who pay their wages.

In the last 5 years I've watched international football from friendlies to World Cups in England, South Africa, USA, Portugal, Spain, Austria, Poland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Croatia, Macedonia, Israel, Estonia and Holland. The standard is appalling because players aren't as interested in playing for their country as they are for their clubs.
I dont think that this 8 year old article you found somehow proves extensively that Viduka is really self centered and a primadona. He went home for a break, something that you English wouldn't understand, all the players families live in england with the players, they don't have to ever leave the country except for those major tournaments like the world cup that according to you they would rather stay home and watch tv instead.

Even so, are there any other Socceroos you can dig up 10 year old unrelated articles on and then use them to try and form an argument about nothing? Uruguay might not be the greatest team, but they are definitely not average. Top 20 or 30 is pretty good, considering how many countries play. Uruguay have about 3 million people, Australia have about 20 million. England has much more than both of them put together, and they didnt beat any teams harder than Uruguay, luckily managed a 2-2 with Sweden and lost to Portugal because Rooney is a dirty player and Beckham was crying, a captain that cries, what an inspiration. For a team that has probably the best players and quality in the world, they underperformed shockingly.

What does Australia beating American Samoa prove about us anyway? We beat them 31-0, set 2 world records in the process. Do you think that beating them was a big headline here, and that thousands of people went to federation square to cheer us on against them? We dont see it as a great achievement, and we know they are an easy team. Its people like you who give us a bad name, implying we compare other teams against American Samoa. As much as you can badmouth the quality and achievements of Australia, I seem to remember a certain international friendly in Upton Park in 2003, where Australia destroyed a full strength England 3-1. I can almost guarantee you will make up some sh*t excuse about how they werent full strength, but just have a look at the teamlist.

Do you honestly think that the money is the reason many players don't play in internationals? Maybe some are concerned, but not most, and definitely not Australians. Why didn't Kewell return for Australia's friendly against Uruguay earlier this year? Because he didn't feel like it, and would rather make more money? no. He was badly injured ever since the world cup, and he had to return to fitness to play in the Champions League Final. This is why you can't say that players feel that friendlies are a waste of time. You have to weigh up the options. If you think that players should play friendlies instead of cup finals, then that shows how little you know. Sometimes players have to play for their clubs, and i haven't seen any Australians that didn't return for this Asian cup, and many returned for the qualifiers as well. Mark Viduka returned earlier this year for a friendly against China. CHINA. Think about it. He must hate his national team if he returns to play against China. And even Tim Cahill, Mark Bresciano and John Aloisi returned to play Kuwait. How many top England players turn out to play the Faroe Islands when they are qualifying for the Euro for example.

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Post by belija91 » 22 Jul 2007, 12:58

Japan beat Australia 4-3 on penalties the other night. We scored half way through the second half and were in front 1-0. Two minutes later Japan scored a half-chance as a result of the inexperienced Mark Milligan who tried to clear the ball but missed it and then making another shocking mistake following it, allowing Nakamura to score. Australia was playing half the game with only 10 men when Vince Grella was sent off ridiculously, not to mention all the yellow cards we received. The conditions were harsh and were in favor of Japan, they played all there AFC games here in such conditions. The Temperature was over 30 degrees celcious and the Australians barely survived the 120 minutes with only 10 men. When it came to penalties Harry Kewell and Lucas Neill missed both of Australia's opening penalties. The manner in which they took the penalties was out of sheer exhaustion. Lucas Neill took only two slow steps and barely kicked the ball. The aussies didn't seem to have the energy nor the will. Japan exploited the aussies disadvantage by keeping possession and playing a very conservative game. It was intelligent and they deserved it in the end, although Australia should've done better and it could've easily gone our way.

My point is Australia should've and could've won so easily but they didn't and I guess that's all that counts. I'm not trying to make excuses either. It's hard for the rest of the world not to be so judgemental of Asian teams, they didn't watch the games, only saw the results, so they have no right.
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Post by thisisdard » 23 Jul 2007, 16:13

belija91 wrote:Japan beat Australia 4-3 on penalties the other night. We scored half way through the second half and were in front 1-0. Two minutes later Japan scored a half-chance as a result of the inexperienced Mark Milligan who tried to clear the ball but missed it and then making another shocking mistake following it, allowing Nakamura to score. Australia was playing half the game with only 10 men when Vince Grella was sent off ridiculously, not to mention all the yellow cards we received. The conditions were harsh and were in favor of Japan, they played all there AFC games here in such conditions. The Temperature was over 30 degrees celcious and the Australians barely survived the 120 minutes with only 10 men. When it came to penalties Harry Kewell and Lucas Neill missed both of Australia's opening penalties. The manner in which they took the penalties was out of sheer exhaustion. Lucas Neill took only two slow steps and barely kicked the ball. The aussies didn't seem to have the energy nor the will. Japan exploited the aussies disadvantage by keeping possession and playing a very conservative game. It was intelligent and they deserved it in the end, although Australia should've done better and it could've easily gone our way.

My point is Australia should've and could've won so easily but they didn't and I guess that's all that counts. I'm not trying to make excuses either. It's hard for the rest of the world not to be so judgemental of Asian teams, they didn't watch the games, only saw the results, so they have no right.
It was Takahara who scored the Japan goal (oddly enough he missed the penalty) :roll: . I wouldnt say the conditions favored Japan either because they played the game with almost no substitutes. The Japanese seemed bloody exhausted as well. Not to say that Australia sucks. It is one of the best nations in world soccer. But Kewell seemed so relaxed in the penalties to be honest. Juggling the ball from halfline to the spot was inmpressive but he seemed too confident and Kamaguchi saved his shot. Lucas Neill's shot seemed quite strong but Kamaguchi nailed it in a split second. (look up youtube. well not the best resource for judging a team but that penalty of Kewell was just well... under par..too close to keeper :wink: )

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Post by ratherton » 25 Jul 2007, 07:17

truesocceroo wrote:I dont think that this 8 year old article you found somehow proves extensively that Viduka is really self centered and a primadona. He went home for a break, something that you English wouldn't understand, all the players families live in england with the players, they don't have to ever leave the country except for those major tournaments like the world cup that according to you they would rather stay home and watch tv instead.

Even so, are there any other Socceroos you can dig up 10 year old unrelated articles on and then use them to try and form an argument about nothing? Uruguay might not be the greatest team, but they are definitely not average. Top 20 or 30 is pretty good, considering how many countries play. Uruguay have about 3 million people, Australia have about 20 million. England has much more than both of them put together, and they didnt beat any teams harder than Uruguay, luckily managed a 2-2 with Sweden and lost to Portugal because Rooney is a dirty player and Beckham was crying, a captain that cries, what an inspiration. For a team that has probably the best players and quality in the world, they underperformed shockingly.

What does Australia beating American Samoa prove about us anyway? We beat them 31-0, set 2 world records in the process. Do you think that beating them was a big headline here, and that thousands of people went to federation square to cheer us on against them? We dont see it as a great achievement, and we know they are an easy team. Its people like you who give us a bad name, implying we compare other teams against American Samoa. As much as you can badmouth the quality and achievements of Australia, I seem to remember a certain international friendly in Upton Park in 2003, where Australia destroyed a full strength England 3-1. I can almost guarantee you will make up some sh*t excuse about how they werent full strength, but just have a look at the teamlist.

Do you honestly think that the money is the reason many players don't play in internationals? Maybe some are concerned, but not most, and definitely not Australians. Why didn't Kewell return for Australia's friendly against Uruguay earlier this year? Because he didn't feel like it, and would rather make more money? no. He was badly injured ever since the world cup, and he had to return to fitness to play in the Champions League Final. This is why you can't say that players feel that friendlies are a waste of time. You have to weigh up the options. If you think that players should play friendlies instead of cup finals, then that shows how little you know. Sometimes players have to play for their clubs, and i haven't seen any Australians that didn't return for this Asian cup, and many returned for the qualifiers as well. Mark Viduka returned earlier this year for a friendly against China. CHINA. Think about it. He must hate his national team if he returns to play against China. And even Tim Cahill, Mark Bresciano and John Aloisi returned to play Kuwait. How many top England players turn out to play the Faroe Islands when they are qualifying for the Euro for example.
Whatever I find, you won't be convinced so its pointless wasting time going into the Viduka discussion any further.

Fully agree about England - they are a bunch of wankers. Read some of my posts about them...and don't even start me on the "manager" !!!

Not sure why you are so touchy about this. All I did was state what the manager said about SOME of the players attitudes and gave my opinions about the attitude in general of Premier League players. As a number of the Aussie team play in the Premier League, I don't see why their attitudes will be any different.

You have to understand that players have very different views and attitudes to supporters.
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