Politics (US)

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cfrealmadrid
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well, we have "religion," so i figured this might make for some good debate.

i was just reading some posts someplace else on the site, about bush, and how much one certain user hates him and whatnot, and i thought about it. what are the odds that the world's most evil man (according to the person i mentioned earlier) would be elected by a majority vote....twice? did you ever think maybe it's the public's fault? in the words of the great george carlin, "THIS IS THE BEST WE CAN DO." if all the bush haters (not saying i'm pro bush, i'm really quite neutral on him) have someone better that can solve all our problems, where is he? where are all the geniuses that should be running the country instead?

and i'm sick of people saying that bush went in to "get money." he makes about 6 times as much as the average person anyway. plus whatever the oil companies he already owns make for him. he doesn't need it. and how would attacking a "defenseless" country make him supposedly rich? and the defenseless quote brings up another point....

who says iraq never had weapons in the first place? they've searched about 50% of the country for these weapons. they're not positive that they don't exist. there were large, mysterious shipments moved from iraq to syria and iran in march of 2003 (just after bush's deadline to get rid of weapons). the media usually conveniently forgets to leave that part out. and they haven't searched either of those two countries for weapons yet.

anyway, i have a lot to complain about, but mainly about other people who complain :D . so you guys can take it from here, this should be interesting.
Hala Galacticos

Croatianblood1
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Yeah there are alot of Bush haters but many cannot support the reason WHY DO YOU HATE BUSH? (sry for caps). It seems some people just "follow the crowd" and if 1 person dosent like bush, it seems other people follow that but they cant support their reason. I'm not for or against Bush because i dont know much about politics, how can i hate someone i don't know much about?
P.S. good topic cfrealmadrid, i think it will be as popular as the religion topic.
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Sputnik
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for me its like this: for the leader of the most powerful nation on the earth, is bush the best we can do? okay he can be considered a good leader because he makes tough choices, but for me most of these decisions are not always good ones, and im sure your all aware of how hes ridiculed, some of the stuff isnt too far off the mark. im sure there is someone better in the whole of america than gwb to lead their country.
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interista
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for one thing why is this topic on a soccer site? for another ill tell why many people (includin me) hate bush. for the first thing he one his first election by cheating, gore even had more votes

[what are the odds that the world's most evil man (according to the person i mentioned earlier) would be elected by a majority vote....twice? ]

sry but the majority woted for gore in the first election (dont make comments about political systems you dont know)

bush also has lost a ton of american jobs, destroyed the enviroment and in his first year alone took more vacation days than any other us president, made the national deficit the largest EVER, had knowing torture happen, AND he still hasn't caught osam because he's been spending all his time on iraq, not to mention he doesn't know how to talk, and these aren't all.
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expert
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WHY DO YOU HATE BUSH?
I love bush. Shaven or not, it's all good baby.
cfrealmadrid wrote:and i'm sick of people saying that bush went in to "get money."
Congress supported his decision and raised money for the war.
cfrealmadrid wrote:he makes about 6 times as much as the average person anyway. plus whatever the oil companies he already owns make for him. he doesn't need it. and how would attacking a "defenseless" country make him supposedly rich?
Corporations that won contracts for rebuilding Iraq (Bush's pals) made a ton of money. Controlling Iraq's export of oil means big bucks too. ;)

It's funny to me how much emotion people put in their posts whenever politics or religion come up. "My belifs are better than yours" topics always go in circles, so I won't post here any further. :)

cfrealmadrid
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interista wrote:for one thing why is this topic on a soccer site? for another ill tell why many people (includin me) hate bush. for the first thing he one his first election by cheating, gore even had more votes

[what are the odds that the world's most evil man (according to the person i mentioned earlier) would be elected by a majority vote....twice? ]

sry but the majority woted for gore in the first election (dont make comments about political systems you dont know)

bush also has lost a ton of american jobs, destroyed the enviroment and in his first year alone took more vacation days than any other us president, made the national deficit the largest EVER, had knowing torture happen, AND he still hasn't caught osam because he's been spending all his time on iraq, not to mention he doesn't know how to talk, and these aren't all.
this topic is in the off topic section. you may or may not realize that this means it can be about whatever i want. i thought it would make for some good debate. sorry if this offended you :roll:

and thanks for assuming i didn't know what i was talking about, as far as america's political systems go. bush losing the popular vote has no effect whatsoever on the outcome of the election. it's electoral votes that matter, which, oh yeah, he did win. so maybe you should not make comments on people you don't know.

since you seem to know what you're talking about, could you explain how bush "lost jobs" for people? seriously, i've been hearing a lot about this, and i don't quite understand how he "lost" these jobs. war is expensive. i'm not really pro-war, but i do think it was right to go in the first place. we do need to get out of there soon, but dethroning one of the world's worst dictators kind of seems like a worthy cause to me. and as for the torture scandal, how the hell is that bush's fault personally? i'm not quite sure where that idea came from. blame lyndie england for that one, if anyone. and as for osama bin laden, who says that we don't have people in the afghani mountains looking for him? here's some news: our whole army is not in iraq. we have troops in more than that one singular area. we haven't given up on searching for osama, as you say we have. and as for attacking his public speaking, plenty of people suck at that. i agree though, he is pretty bad...
expert wrote:Quote:
WHY DO YOU HATE BUSH?

I love bush. Shaven or not, it's all good baby.
cfrealmadrid wrote:
and i'm sick of people saying that bush went in to "get money."

Congress supported his decision and raised money for the war.
cfrealmadrid wrote:
he makes about 6 times as much as the average person anyway. plus whatever the oil companies he already owns make for him. he doesn't need it. and how would attacking a "defenseless" country make him supposedly rich?

Corporations that won contracts for rebuilding Iraq (Bush's pals) made a ton of money. Controlling Iraq's export of oil means big bucks too.

It's funny to me how much emotion people put in their posts whenever politics or religion come up. "My belifs are better than yours" topics always go in circles, so I won't post here any further.
haha nice expert. but by now you should realize that i love illogical and circular arguments. i'm not saying my beliefs are better than anyone else's (they are though :lol: ), i'm just trying to start interesting topics.

i guess that does make sense about congress approving his decision, but shouldn't people be angry at congress instead? the president doesn't have executive dictating power over everything, as a lot of people seem to think.

and about how bush's friends are making money off this, by controlling iraq's oil, it's past administrations' faults (partially) for relying too much on oil from one area in the first place. we should start getting oil from other areas (south america, ALASKA) if people don't want such high prices.[/i]
Hala Galacticos

Sputnik
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if people don't want such high prices
not really a point, but i found it funny, my friend just went to America and said people were complaing about a full tank of gas costing $40. in england its more than double that
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cfrealmadrid
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yeah, and in turkey it's more than triple i think. i just meant "high" by american standards. we've actually got some of the lowest gas prices in the world.
Hala Galacticos

Barcafan44
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Ok, lets calm down and look at the facts,

Someone made a good point eariler when they said that from a country so imense and powerful Bush is the best we can do but i also agree with the point that too many of our fellow citizens simply follow like sheep, that is the whole point of democracy, to asserts ones voice. I mainly dislike Bush's foregin policy, ill let mr. Cornel West make my point for me.

"The ugly events of 9/11 should have been an opprtunity for national self-srcutiny. In the wake of the shock and horror of those attacks, many asked the question, why do they hate us? But the country failed to engage in a serious, sustained, deeply probing examination of the possible answers to that question. Instead, the leaders of the Bush administration encouraged us to adopt the simplistic and aggressive 'with us or against us' stance and we ran roughshod over our allies, turning a deaf ear to any criticisms of the course of action the Bush leadership had determined to take. We have been unwilling-both at this critical juncture and throughout our history-to turn a sufficiently critical eye on our own behavior in the world. We have often behaved in an overbearing, imperial, hypocritical manner as we have attained more and more power as a hegemon.

Our hypocritical, bullying behavior in regard to so many of the regions of the world is surely not the only reason for the 9/11 attacks-and it certainly dosen't justify those horrible callous, violent terrorist acts-but we have failed to even consider deeply as a culture our imperialist behavior has played in the contempt we have inspired in so much of the world. "

West goes onto agrue that free-market capitalism, an aggressive militarism, and an insidious authoritarianism are rendering American democracy impotent. While obiviously this is not all the Bush Administration's fault, I find it intriguing and I do blame Bush for some of this country's problems; the country's economy, the energy crisis, the war in Iraq and the complete disregard to the constitution (i.e. The Patriot Act). Bush is not evil; he is incomptent and we has the people have the right and the responsiblity to challenge our leaders, that is how we grown not only has people but as a democratic society.

Anyone interested in following up this converstation, pm me, or anyone interested in finding out more about Cornel West.
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interista
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[quote] since you seem to know what you're talking about, could you explain how bush "lost jobs" for people? [/quote]

when a the government loses money, the economy weakens, when the economy weakens companies don't have as much money so the have to lay off workers.

thank you Barcafan44 for bringing up the patriot act, i totally forgot about it. the patriot act has robed the privacy rights from all americans for "national security" (notice quotes)

[quote]Corporations that won contracts for rebuilding Iraq (Bush's pals) made a ton of money. Controlling Iraq's export of oil means big bucks too[/quote]

how could you like the guy if like you said he's making a lot of money (or his friends are) and he probally went to war for that reason
Last edited by interista on 07 Jun 2006, 11:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Horris
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i totally agree with what intersia is saying, and remeber how recently bush was getting NSA (national security agency) to listen in on people phone calls. This guy has given reason for every person in america to vote him out but still he remains in power, it is crazy
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cfrealmadrid
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Bush is not evil; he is incomptent
yes, exactly. people act like he's messing things up on purpose, because for some reason he doesn't like america. really though, he's just not smart enough to be president. not many people are.

i'm still not too sure about the general use of the word "economy" and how the government's expenses are related to the income of individual companies.

as for the wire tapping, here's my view. he wasn't listening in on random phone calls people were making to their family and friends. he was having the nsa monitor any international phone calls with people who could be terrorists, or that could be helping terrorists. even if he was listening in on random phone calls within the country, i have nothing to hide, so i could care less if the government listens to me talk to my friends. according to the constitution, even if i do say something about the government, they can't legally do anything about it anyway. i'm not saying i think they should listen to phone calls, i'm just saying i don't really care.
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Barcafan44
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i'm not saying i think they should listen to phone calls, i'm just saying i don't really care.
Then whats to stop them for stipping us of more rights, im not saying that i have something to hide but it is the principle; if we allow our goverment to say that because it is a time of war we should forfeits the very civil liberties that men have died protecting. If we allow Bush to use the blanket of war to strip us of our rights as citizens then how do we ever get them back? Bush himself has called this a never-ending war, so, to let any form of goverment to trapple our rights for any reason is to have given up that right.

Do not let fear destroy America, for those who would liberty for safety deserve neither.
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vcssoccer_01
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hey everybody, relax relx you all know even if you do like bush he is still really stupid. make love not war who wants a hug?

interista
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even though vcssoccer_01 made the stupidest post in the world, though i agreed we all need to calm down and love each other
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