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LYM.randy
Senior Member
Posts: 145
Joined: 06 May 2006, 06:27
Location: washington DC

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pfft...
I am a christian and for that reason look upon this thread in disgust, because the christianity espoused in here is ridiculous (see: deserving ridicule).

If you are 19 years old, haven't read the dialogues of Plato or the colloquies of Erasmus, and pretend to convert non-believers by quoting scripture...
you have a LOT to learn.

Christianity is a religion: it provides the mass of people with sometimes sparse education an enobling set of guidelines to keep society from falling to pieces.

Christianity is an art: it expresses poetically many concepts about humanity and the Creator in ways which "strict" natural science cannot. NOTE: that does not mean it is irrational. The entirety of the Universe is rational (see: Johannes Kepler, Nicholas of Cusa, St. Augustine, the teachings of Paul, Gottfried von Leibniz, etc., etc., etc.)

Christianity is a philosophy: It is historically, the continuation of the humanist philosophy of socrates and plato. The improvement upon the mere dialectical method by the addition of beautiful concepts lacking in socrates. IE. the garden of gethsemany, the principle of redemption, the notin of charity, the foundations of non-violence.

When you merely "believe"...what does that make you? Are you any better from the church of scientology? Charles Manson believed something...Jeffery dalmer believed something...Adolph Hitler believed something.

I am a RATIONAL christian, and that is the only true christian. Do yourselves a favor and think more clearly what are the consequences of the beliefs that you hold.

What happens to society when there is no measure of truth...When everything is degenerated to equally "respectable" opinions? Do you know how the Roman Empire almost destroyed christianity? It finally allowed it into the pantheon and corrupted it as "just another system of belief"

LYM.randy
Senior Member
Posts: 145
Joined: 06 May 2006, 06:27
Location: washington DC

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oh BTW...
I'll look at your link if you check out this book...it is a good introduction to rational christianity:

http://www.bible-reading.com/screwtape.html

This is the first letter in a fictional book about a teacher and student of the devil in the practice of ensnaring humans.

MikeTheMadKeeper
Sophomore Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 23 Aug 2006, 17:24
Location: Miami,FL

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Listen, you can say what you want about "unintelligent" people just because they believe in something like me. I am not going to try to continue this because i see it is pointless. One last thing to say and i won't reply again.

Of course you will commit sins but if you accept Jesus into your heart, you can be forgiven from him.

If you reject Jesus as the son of God yes you will go to hell because he IS the son of God. My belief is that he is anyway.

If you murder someone and you ask forgivness yes you will be forgiven in God's eyes. Of course you will pay a penalty here on Earth but in God's eyes you will be forgiven if you mean it.

J, if you can't see what a sin is, then you are truly blind. ANYONE can tell what is a sin and if they cannot, then they are spiritually blind. People expect eternal life because it has PROMISED to them if they accept Jesus into their heart and strive to be like him(though no one can, you still must try). Rejecting him and saying he isn't real, saying God isn't real, ect. doesn't do any good for you and saying to others and trying to convince them that God isn't real is even worse.

As for the priest thing and in John, i don't see ANYTHING saying about giving modern day priests that. Look, if you accept Jesus into your heart, you become a saint because you did that. I know to a lot of people it sounds strange but its true.

Christianity was made by God. Jesus was jewish and then betrayed by the Jewish people. Islam was invented by man.

How can God die? Wow. So i guess the whole thing about Jesus saying he is God's son means nothing. Jesus was a man and died for our sins and went to hell for it. That's why he resurrected a few days AFTER his death.

I NEVER said that people can become perfect. I stated CLEARLY that if you accept Jesus into your heart, he can forgive your sins if you mean it. I NEVER said you can become perfect or sinless. Having sex before you are married is a sin, being homosexual is a sin too. I am sure many of you will get angry at that(not that you guys are gay but just because being is a sin you'll probably get angry) but no where in the bible does it state that two men can be together. If you hate your parents, you are a sinner. NO ONE IS PERFECT AND I NEVER SAID YOU CAN BE. Accepting Jesus is just a step to trying to be like him which is what ALL should try to do.( Not trying to be a God, but to be a good person). Using God's name in vain is a sin. (For example, 'God damn it'. That is a sin. I know i know i just said that but i can ask forgivness for it especially since i am trying to explain something to all of you.)

If you can give me proof that the 'tradition continues' of humans forgiving sins and acting as God, then so be it.

floater, you are right that a debate should agree with thought and intellect but with religion, that is impossible because some people see me, and every other christian, as idiots and fanatics with a devotion to something we cannot see. As a matter of fact, people see every religion that way.

But don't think of it as religion anymore. Think of it as accepting Jesus into your heart and asking HIS forgivness, and trying to be a good person. THAT IS IT. Forget the word 'christian' and catholic' and 'muslim' and 'jewish'. Just accept him into your heart, ask his forgivness whenever you sin, and try to be a good person and try to show people Jesus and try to show them how good he is. That is it, forget the religious names.

Another thing about the praying, why don't you just simply ask God for forgivness? EVERYONE has that power of asking him for forgivness so you should use it.

LYM, when you merely believe what does it make you? When you merely believe in God? In someone you cannot see, hear, only feel? When you believe in it so strongly that you would rather die than reject him? It's called faith. That is what its all about. LYM i respect you as an intellect as i myself am also and i have read Plato but God is someone i BELIEVE in. I do not need science because i had an experience earlier in my life. You may say that people who 'believe' become murderers and suicide bombers, ect. But not if you believe in God because you will know what is right and wrong. I respect you for what you, for lack a better word to suit you, believe. You can call me whatever you want but i believe in what i believe in because i had experience that changed me. Maybe you will one day too who knows. I respect you LYM i really do because i know where you are coming from because i have read Plato, Sartre, Nietzche(spelling), so i know. I read these to get a better understanding of everything because i am that way but when you know God, you need not read those because everything becomes so clear. LYM and J, i leave here as a friend.

That is all i have to say. I hope to leave this discussion with more friends than enemies. If anyone has a question or insult for me, PM me. Thanks for listening and responding, and God bless all of you.
Last edited by MikeTheMadKeeper on 29 Aug 2006, 04:19, edited 1 time in total.

LYM.randy
Senior Member
Posts: 145
Joined: 06 May 2006, 06:27
Location: washington DC

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Do you believe that God is perfect? I'm sure you do...
Then you must believe that God made a perfect Universe? Yes of course.
And then there would be nothing in this world that has no purpose? Surely.
Then why did God give you a mind?
...
Perhaps...to USE IT. I swear it might make more sense than quoting scripture all day long and then swaying and singing whenever a doubt enters your mind.

LYM.randy
Senior Member
Posts: 145
Joined: 06 May 2006, 06:27
Location: washington DC

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another thing...
Did you even READ my post???

MikeTheMadKeeper
Sophomore Member
Posts: 38
Joined: 23 Aug 2006, 17:24
Location: Miami,FL

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God gave you a mind to choose. To choose to believe in him, or not.

That's it. That's all i have to say. Again, i leave here hoping to have made more friends that enemies. Again, any insults or questions, please PM me. Thanks for listening without kicking me out.

ballasyder
Junior Member
Posts: 61
Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 04:32
Location: USA

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LYM.randy
I do use my mind and I thank God for it. But you can't use philosophy over the Words of God. You say youre a christian but you believe more in your philosophy than anything else (colossians2:8I hope you actually read it and understand the reason why.). We should be rational and think of course and cs lewis is a great thinker and obviously you know that. But try Jp moreland he has a major in philosophy and many other subjects. I'm not sure if you'll even want to find truth listening to me, you may think yourself more intelligent because you have gone to college but I agree with you that we should all be ratiional. If i found something that didn't fall in line with my intellect I wouldn't believe. Why would i believe something i know is false. And i'm confused on what you mean by the consequences of my beliefs, what would be a negative consequence? I still haven't found any.

LYM.randy
Senior Member
Posts: 145
Joined: 06 May 2006, 06:27
Location: washington DC

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I am only pointing to the danger of belief without reason.

I apologize if I sound somewhat arrogant, but it is because I find myself very very scared at what has become of our world...and that is then compunded by seeing many who profess themselves as christian, holding beliefs so alien to the intention of Christ.

It sometimes makes me want to expose people...that maybe smacking them around a little bit will help them change...I should know better.

Cassius,
Be not deceived: if I have veil'd my look,
I turn the trouble of my countenance
Merely upon myself. Vexed I am
Of late with passions of some difference,
Conceptions only proper to myself,
Which give some soil perhaps to my behaviors;
But let not therefore my good friends be grieved--
Among which number, Cassius, be you one--
Nor construe any further my neglect,
Than that poor Brutus, with himself at war,
Forgets the shows of love to other men.

Maybe that explains it? :)

LYM.randy
Senior Member
Posts: 145
Joined: 06 May 2006, 06:27
Location: washington DC

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and a note on the scripture:
It is an attack on "sophistry", not on right philosophy which cannot be in contradiction with God.

ballasyder
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Posts: 61
Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 04:32
Location: USA

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Oh yea totally. I love to see Christians that think logically because it always bothers me when christians just believe and take it for what someone tells them. I believe every christian should be logical and well educated as to not fall away from the truth. I'm sorry for thinking you were not a christians it just seemed that way from your other posts. So my apologies. And I believe we can use quotes from famous thinkers just as Paul used quotes from poets and I think he also used some philosophers, but remember the word of God cuts to peoples heart. Intellect is the icing on the cake to complete someones faith. So thanx and God Bless.

J
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Location: Massachusetts, USA

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Hey guys, whatever makes you fell more secure about things, then go for it. :)

Just remeber if you had jewish parents who were very into their FAITH, then you would probably be jewish. If you had muslim parents who were very into their FAITH, then you would probably be muslim.

I highly doubt any of you came from a jewish family and converted to christianity or grew up in a christian family and converted to islam.

ballasyder
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 04:32
Location: USA

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Oh yea I'm sure. But I think people should look into whatever they believe. So whatever you believe should be reasonable. And my parents weren't christian and i became a christian.

J
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ballasyder wrote:Oh yea I'm sure. But I think people should look into whatever they believe. So whatever you believe should be reasonable. And my parents weren't christian and i became a christian.
So then what are your parents belief or whoever you grew up with?

ballasyder
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Location: USA

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Athiest and humanist.

ballasyder
Junior Member
Posts: 61
Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 04:32
Location: USA

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resulting in my new age beliefs. and then I found true peace with christ after that.

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