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cfrealmadrid
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well, as with most books, the original text in the original language is usually the best. i just want to try to gain a more thorough understanding of islam.
Hala Galacticos

floater
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exactly
and i hope u do
"In football, the greatest satisfaction is winning when they say you can't." - Robert Paul

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cfrealmadrid
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just something i was thinking of:

can christians really believe in neanderthals and cavemen? i mean there is overwhelming scientific evidence that they existed, but the whole being against evolution thing would make it hard to accept their existence.
Hala Galacticos

BenAMsoccer
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As far as I know our modern view of the caveman does contradict scripture.
Adam's first words in scripture were actually complex poetry. It is possible that after the Tower of Babel incident things were slowed down a little. The Bible even talks about that if the languages were not confused they would have been able to do almost anything they imagined, thus making them much more advanced. Most of the so called geological "facts", such as the skulls, are really humans with a vitamin D deffeciency or an animal skull.
The whole hairy hunched man starting from scratch idea compared to scripture, really just seems foolish.

ageorge
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2. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?
The four fundamental forces are 1.gravity 2.electromagnetism (electricity, light) 3.strong nuclear (holds protons in the nucleus of an atom together) and 4.weak nuclear (radioactive decay). Gravity is the weakest of the four. At very high temperatures however (like during the big bang) the 4 forces start to behave like one. Gravity is much stronger, etc. So the laws/phenomena that we see are a manifestation of one fundamental force.
Actually gravity is not considered a force it is warped space, I hope you can understand this explanation the universe is made of planes and the earth and all other objects that have mass are forcing warped space, in a simple way its like putting a size one football into a sock, it will fit put it is constrained, it is being pulled on in its entirety and therefore objects are caught in the warp. Scientists are still trying to unify all the forces into one force that applies.

Anyway there is too much to still solve to answer any real questions for creation, and we will probably never know until we are in heaven or die and tha's it.

zico
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Well basically what I mean is if I had never been fed Christian beliefs as a child or whatever then I would think haha Jesus what? What a joke! *slaps church going friend on head*. If I lived in Irag or some sh*t then I would probaly be a hard core or at least a very devout muslim.

Like the Nazi children that were brought up to beleive that Jews were bad or Ancient Greeks building statues of something that most would accept dont exist. But hey they were just as faithful as you, step into their shoes and think of the devoution.

One thing tho, if there is a higher force then there wouldnt be war, famine, rape ect ect. Christians get murdered and raped, wtf is with this? Muslims also get murdered and raped, real nice thanks a lot Allah?

These so called miracles I see are like as if god randomly picks your name out of a hat and says hey lets deflect this bullet from that guy and meh stuff the rest that prayed before hand. An example I think would be war, its pretty much pot luck who lives or dies.

A lot texts say dont put your God to the test or he is just simply testing your faith when you devout your life to him and your life is screwed up. I personally think its a way to explain for this pot luck thing to what you call devine intervention and put off people saying 'Hey somethings not right'.

Also this hell concept, he who doesnt beleive *insert god of your choice* will go to hell! Yeh all those poor greeks and ancient egyptions who were taught bulls**t for their whole life get punished. Hmmm all those unborn infants never beleived in uhhh... stuff.

oobee007
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In reply to Zico throught the eyes of a christian -
The reason God allows suffering (in Christian belief) is that Adam and Eve sinned by taking the apple, therefore disobeying God. He then sent Jesus to rid us of our sins, IF we belief in God and forgive others. The reason people suffer is that Jesus has not had his 'second coming' . And has not yet saved the living from our sins and evil.

PS: If anyone says how can Adam and Eve be the first man/woman on earth, wouldn't we all be inbreed. Adam and Eve are just a representation of how even the earliest humans sinned.
Mark Viduka - I don't care if we lose everygame as long as we win the league!

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newkidondablock
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I'm christain but I'm not cathlolic or prodestant i believe in jesus i belive in what he says but the religions go against everything he (jesus) stood for I mean he was killed becuase he destroyed a church becuase they made money off of gods name...Catholic preist arent doing that....


But i believe is infact there is a god


The big bang i believe that happened i believe god is everything that he was the first atoms to make a star Hydrogen and helium we are part of god as god is apart of us... sinning isnt bad i believe to rest in peace or go to heaven you have to live a mostly good life no matter what religion you believe as long as you help and not harm others then i believe you will not be "condemned" I also believe there isnt an afterlife you've only got one shot to make an impact on this world. And I'm planning to make an impact through soccer...
Take soccer days


Not sick days

thisisdard
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If everything in the world was beautiful, then all of us would not know what something beautiful is.

Personally, I have come to the belief that there is in fact an infinite being.
If God and Heaven exist, and if God is truly all knowing, do you not see the logic why we see pain and suffering every day?

For example, as many of you are football players, if you would go through an entire season and felt deppressed bec. scored nothing at all, but on the finals against an extremely tough oppponent, you score the only goal in the game which saved your team from misery, wouldn't you be extremely happy? Of course you will. Why? It's not a feeling you would have experienced in a long time.

If I was an extremely poor man, a dollar would make me so much happier than if Bill Gates got $34,000. Why? Something missing in us has been fulfilled.

So if we experienced the unhappiness of life often, and we went to Heaven, dont you think we would in fact be very happy if we did get to a place like that? Yes we probably would. Something that has been missing in our lives is now in us. This is why soccer players overreact after scoring a goal. It's a rare happiness even if its simply kick a ball to the net. This is why families are happy when a relative who gets kidnapped in Iraq comes back home. But why dont basketball players react when they a shot goes in? It's a form of happiness that they are already used to. It's not rare.

So if God was all loving, why doesnt he kust show us what heaven looks like so that people can stop fighting and sinning? Im not God but an all infinite being would probably know the answer. It's probably because we would also forget our earthly duties that we need to do for other people. If we were shown an image from an all infinitely happy place like heaven and we all know that we have to die to reach such a place, dont you think that many people would selfishly commit suicide and leave their loved ones behind just because they hope to reach it?

If God exists then it is obviously a very perfect infinite logic that tells us that we are supposed to stay on Earth and suffer because without pain, how would we know what true happiness truly is?

thisisdard
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If God is all knowing, therefore he should also know a much bigger picture of why things are the way they are. People, who are obviously flawed, can never see the big picture as to why things are the way they are. :)

MasterUsama
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well, as with most books, the original text in the original language is usually the best. i just want to try to gain a more thorough understanding of islam.
hey i'm a muslim. you can ask me if you like. i will try to inform you as well as i can.
One thing tho, if there is a higher force then there wouldnt be war, famine, rape ect ect. Christians get murdered and raped, wtf is with this? Muslims also get murdered and raped, real nice thanks a lot Allah?
no. just because there is a higher force doesn't mean there won't be any trouble down here. because he need not intervene with our free will to do as we like because, it does not affect him in any way as he is far suprior. it affects us. all that we do affects us only and we pay the price. so one might think that we can do whatever we want. but that is not the case.

allah does not forcefully make us do things. rather he sets the rules as to what we can do and what we can't which is based on things good for us. he obviuosly has the best knowledge of everything.

so there will always be bad things in this world and it acts as a test or the test for us. we have to choose to do the right thing for ourselves and follow what allah says. and you ask "why do muslims get murdered and raped?". well it's a test to see, if we are of pure nature and can handle something bad and still be faithfull. after all it is said in the quran,

"Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere" (Surah Al-Bakarah:155)

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expert
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MasterUsama wrote:no. just because there is a higher force doesn't mean there won't be any trouble down here. because he need not intervene with our free will to do as we like because, it does not affect him in any way as he is far suprior. it affects us. all that we do affects us only and we pay the price. so one might think that we can do whatever we want. but that is not the case.
...so there will always be bad things in this world and it acts as a test or the test for us. we have to choose to do the right thing for ourselves and follow what allah says. and you ask "why do muslims get murdered and raped?"
Some evil IS caused by the misuse of free will, I will give you that. But what about natural disasters, birth defects, diseases and so on... they indiscrimantly affect innocent and good people. I believe the traditional argument goes something like this:
Is God capable of preventing these evils, but not willing? Then he is not benevolent. Is God incapable of preventing these evils? Then he is not omnipotent.
can handle something bad and still be faithfull
So God would give cancer to a 5-year old child just so he can test the faith of its parents? That's pretty mean if you ask me. I thought God is supposed to be benevolent
well it's a test to see, if we are of pure nature
Think of the implications of this sentence. When an airplane crashes for some reason, should we just say, 'don't worry about it, it's just God testing us'... or should we demand that a commission of scientists from the aeronautics bureau figure out what the failure was and how to prevent it from happening in the future.
I would rather live in a society where the latter happens

rambotheriddik
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god doesnt test people. everything that happens in the world happens for a reason even those things which are horrible. just think, you could be killed at anytime, but god is watching over you keeping you safe.

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expert
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rambotheriddik wrote:everything that happens in the world happens for a reason
This sentence doesn't say anything about the world. It's like saying 'god is responsible for everything I don't understand'
rambotheriddik wrote:just think, you could be killed at anytime, but god is watching over you keeping you safe.
If God really intervened in order to keep us safe, we would be living a very different world. The laws of physics wouldn't be constant and people would have no reservation about putting their life at risk.

MasterUsama
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expert wrote:Some evil IS caused by the misuse of free will, I will give you that. But what about natural disasters, birth defects, diseases and so on... they indiscrimantly affect innocent and good people. I believe the traditional argument goes something like this:
Is God capable of preventing these evils, but not willing? Then he is not benevolent. Is God incapable of preventing these evils? Then he is not omnipotent.
ok. so it's not that god will not ever intervene. because that would make the whole thing worthless, just creating us and letting us be. yes natural disasters and other things is of course caused by god. and the reason it affects good people and bad people is because if it only affected the bad people then what would be the point of a test? i mean if somebody did a bad deed and got instantly punished for it then everybody would believe in god anyway and people will always be good.

and for the good people the adversities would remind them of their lord and test if they are willing to do the right thing and stay in the right path however hard it maybe. but it does not mean that everybodys life should be full of sufferings and if you aren't suffering then you aren't in the right path. because everybodys test is different dealing with a different aspect of their lives with some things being common for all. and their test may also be hard or relatively easy. for example a handicapped person has many hardships that i don't have to face. but that would make him less liable in other situations than me and i would be held more responsible for particular things than him. like maybe i have a better oppurtunity to spread the message. so i would be asked about it more than him.

and we believe in after life and that it is our true destination and our main infinite life. we will be rewarded for any hardship that we may have gone through in this world proveded that we stayed in the right path.

as for your argument:
god is definately capable of preventing evil but temporarily won't unless it reaches extreme stages and the people have exhausted all the chances given to them for rectification. the fact that actually makes him benevolent in this situation is that he doesn't punish these evils right away but gives them numerous oppurtunities. and the good people may suffer but they will be rewarded more than they deserve in the afterlife. so that doesn't make god unfair.
So God would give cancer to a 5-year old child just so he can test the faith of its parents? That's pretty mean if you ask me. I thought God is supposed to be benevolent
i hope i already made this clear.
Think of the implications of this sentence. When an airplane crashes for some reason, should we just say, 'don't worry about it, it's just God testing us'... or should we demand that a commission of scientists from the aeronautics bureau figure out what the failure was and how to prevent it from happening in the future.
I would rather live in a society where the latter happens
no we shouldn't just stand there and do nothing. we should of course look into it and try to prevent it. because we are always encouraged to help people as well as we can even if he is not a muslim or is a bad man.

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