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ballasyder
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That's why it is good that Jesus is God and not one of us because he has unconditional love and we have a "give and take" love. We say you did such and such so you don't deserve to be loved but Christ loves evryone. That's why it's confusing because we don't understand the way he loves. That's why we should be grateful. He had to be crucified because the life is in the blood and he had to shed his blood as a sacrifice to save us from our sinful nature and bad choices.

ballasyder
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Also the reason why we only need to believ in him and not do a lot of work to be justified is because he wants our desire to serve him out of love not as a list of things to do. It's like a Dad and a son, would the dad be happier if the son spent time with him because the son loved him or if the son just spent time with him because he knew if he did he would get a toy or candy at the end. Same with christ he wants us to enjoy a friendship with him and not a chore list to feel pressured by.

Croatianblood1
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MikeTheMadKeeper wrote:
Croatianblood1 wrote:Because the priest acts in God's presence so basically you are confessing your sins to God. The priest then gives you absolution and penance. You cant give yourself penance.
And also, priests are not gods. They do not act in God's presence. You are just telling someone that you did something wrong. You are supposed to tell God, not a priest. A priest just preaches and reads from the bible, he cannot forgive you. Only God can. NOBODY acts in God's presence because there is no way that any human being can act in God's presence because only God can forgive you. A priest saying you are forgiven will not do anything except make you feel more secure that a priest, who is human and also a sinner( we are all born sinners), has said it. Many people, who do not have faith in God, prefer this to actually speaking to God. It is said in the bible that, "He who confesses from closed doors and is not seen shall be rewarded from our God who is not seen." This means that if you pray and ask for forgivness from GOD and from your HEART you will be rewarded. This will show how much FAITH you have that you are willing to ask forgivness to someone who you cannot see and who is not on this Earth and believe me, if you mean it, and it comes from the heart, you will be forgiven. ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE YOU, NOT A PRIEST. Now you can pray for other people, but only THEY CAN ASK FOR GOD'S FORGIVNESS.
Ok ok, obviously you are a Protestant and not a Roman Catholic like I am so you have different views. I believe the power to forgive people of their sins was passed down from Jesus to His apostles and from the apostles to modern day priests. The priest acts in Christ's presence. The priest's authority to convey forgiveness does not come from the priest himself, it comes from Christ.
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MikeTheMadKeeper
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Yes they are forgiven IF THEY MEAN IT. Believe me, God will know if you mean it or not.
As for J, in the bible it says that in the end times, it will reach the whole world so somewhere, in some little village or whatever, there is a missionary. But let's say like you said if they have never heard of him EVER well i think he would go to heaven because he has never heard the truth. But also, if he has heard the truth before, and rejects it, he goes to hell. I know what you'll probably say. If he has only heard it once, how can he know its the truth or how will he know if its real or not. Well you have to look back at your past experiences and see if God was with you or not. Even if you've never heard of him, and yet you have gotten through very difficult time and are now better, it sure wasn't the devil that got you through them. So if you've heard of God and reject him, then you go to hell. But as i said, look back and you'll see, that in hard times, he was with you because God loves EVERYONE, Muslims, Catholics, Christians, Atheists, satanists. But of course believing in those things hurts him but he still loves you but cannot let you spend eternity with him if YOU don't want to.

NO. No one can act in God's presence. If you want forgivness, you have to ask GOD and pray in Jesus' name. You can think if you ask a priest that you are doing something but you aren't. As a matter of fact, if you think that a priest acts in God's presence, that in itself is a sin to think that a priest can do that. No one can forgive you except God but if you think that a priest can, fine. If i were you, i would pray to GOD. Doing that also shows how much faith you have that you would ask forgiveness from someone you cannot see.

It is a SIN to believe that a human being, who is born a sinner and is a sinner unless he or she accepts Jesus into their heart and ask forgivness from GOD in Jesus' name, that he or she can forgive anyone of any sin and act in GOD'S presence. That is saying that the priest is God because he is acting in his presence. It's like in the army. If there is no general, the next highest rank acts as general and is therefore the general. So you think that a priest acts as God if you think if it like that.

And you are right, no one can forgive you except God so pray to HIM! Don't ask a priest, pray to God and you will be forgiven if you mean it.

J
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MikeTheMadKeeper wrote:So if you've heard of God and reject him, then you go to hell.
So you're telling me that if someone doesn't believe in god but still does good there whole life, works hard, pays their bills, doesn't bother anyone, helps people out in need, etc, they are still going to go to "hell"??

One thing I have always wondered is, why do people expect this"eternal life"? Why can't people just be happy with what they were already given in this life and just live for what you have now? It almost seems greedy to me that people expect this "heaven" and "eternal life" to come, especially for all these people who have it made compared to some others in the world.

LYM.randy
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How many people in this thread have gone to college?
...
I think possibly J and expert might understand why I ask...

BenAMsoccer
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J wrote:
MikeTheMadKeeper wrote:So if you've heard of God and reject him, then you go to hell.
So you're telling me that if someone doesn't believe in god but still does good there whole life, works hard, pays their bills, doesn't bother anyone, helps people out in need, etc, they are still going to go to "hell"??

One thing I have always wondered is, why do people expect this"eternal life"? Why can't people just be happy with what they were already given in this life and just live for what you have now? It almost seems greedy to me that people expect this "heaven" and "eternal life" to come, especially for all these people who have it made compared to some others in the world.

No matter how much good we do we are all still sinners. If you kill someone it makes you a murderer. It won't matter how many times you mowed your neighbor's lawn, or picked up trash in a parking lot, that wouldn't stand up in a court of law. If a player blatantly tackles a keeper in a game a referee would be wrong not to card him. Right? God wouldn't be perfect if he didn't punish us. Yet, God was good enough to pay the penalty for our sin with his own perfect son Jesus Christ. The thing that sets Christianity apart from all other religions is that its not just another religion out there, but a life changing relatioship with the God that created the universe. He doesn't want you to try to earn your way to heaven, he wants to give it to you.

J
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Who is to say what a "sin" actually is?

LYM.randy
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dood J,
Do you really think these kids are educated enough yet to be worthy of serious debate?

Jesus, I'm just glad that this type of simpleton thinking isn't running our country...
oh wait...

Croatianblood1
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MikeTheMadKeeper wrote:Yes they are forgiven IF THEY MEAN IT. Believe me, God will know if you mean it or not.
As for J, in the bible it says that in the end times, it will reach the whole world so somewhere, in some little village or whatever, there is a missionary. But let's say like you said if they have never heard of him EVER well i think he would go to heaven because he has never heard the truth. But also, if he has heard the truth before, and rejects it, he goes to hell. I know what you'll probably say. If he has only heard it once, how can he know its the truth or how will he know if its real or not. Well you have to look back at your past experiences and see if God was with you or not. Even if you've never heard of him, and yet you have gotten through very difficult time and are now better, it sure wasn't the devil that got you through them. So if you've heard of God and reject him, then you go to hell. But as i said, look back and you'll see, that in hard times, he was with you because God loves EVERYONE, Muslims, Catholics, Christians, Atheists, satanists. But of course believing in those things hurts him but he still loves you but cannot let you spend eternity with him if YOU don't want to.

NO. No one can act in God's presence. If you want forgivness, you have to ask GOD and pray in Jesus' name. You can think if you ask a priest that you are doing something but you aren't. As a matter of fact, if you think that a priest acts in God's presence, that in itself is a sin to think that a priest can do that. No one can forgive you except God but if you think that a priest can, fine. If i were you, i would pray to GOD. Doing that also shows how much faith you have that you would ask forgiveness from someone you cannot see.

It is a SIN to believe that a human being, who is born a sinner and is a sinner unless he or she accepts Jesus into their heart and ask forgivness from GOD in Jesus' name, that he or she can forgive anyone of any sin and act in GOD'S presence. That is saying that the priest is God because he is acting in his presence. It's like in the army. If there is no general, the next highest rank acts as general and is therefore the general. So you think that a priest acts as God if you think if it like that.

And you are right, no one can forgive you except God so pray to HIM! Don't ask a priest, pray to God and you will be forgiven if you mean it.
Look, the priest was given the power to forgive sins through Jesus Christ Himself. Jesus first gave the power to forgive to the apostles. It even says so in the Bible.
In John 20:19–23. Let me read it: "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.’ When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
As you can see, Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to the apostles, who were regular human beings. So the tradition continues but through priests.

Anyway lets say i commit a sin and i am honestly and truly sorry for my sin. So i pray to God for forgiveness, then what is my punishment. I can't just murder 3 people then pray to God for forgiveness and just like that go off scott free.
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Croatianblood1
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J wrote:Who is to say what a "sin" actually is?
God is to say what a sin is. Break one of his Ten Commandments and you have committed a sin.
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J
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LYM.randy wrote:dood J,
Do you really think these kids are educated enough yet to be worthy of serious debate?

Jesus, I'm just glad that this type of simpleton thinking isn't running our country...
oh wait...

Gluttony is running this country (oops wrong thread) and I don't usually even open this thread up, but I happen to the other day and I couldn't help myself. :)

I'm gonna stop now though because you are right, this will really go nowhere.

floater
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here is something to think about
for those Christians that think that Jesus is God, how can GOD die

another thing: nothing can hurt God

MikeTheMadKeeper:
It is a SIN to believe that a human being, who is born a sinner and is a sinner unless he or she accepts Jesus into their heart and ask forgivness from GOD in Jesus' name, that he or she can forgive anyone of any sin and act in GOD'S presence.


even people who have accepted Jesus into their hearts will commit sins, it is impossible for human being not to commit sin, he can become very close to not sinning, but not perfect

MikeTheMadKeeper:
But also, if he has heard the truth before, and rejects it, he goes to hell.


so u mean that if a Jew or Muslim rejects Jesus as the son of God and all the things Christians believe in, he will go to hell
I'm sorry but this is completely false
when people argue/debate it should agree with thought and intellect

no one can say that someone will go to heaven/hell bc no one knows what God has planned out, only God will know

In Islam there is a special concept about forgiveness:
1.if u screw around with the rights/duties God has given to u, if u ask for forgiveness(from the heart), God will most likely forgive
2. if u screw up someone elses rights that God has given to them, if u ask God for forgiveness he will not forgive u unless the persons rights u screwed with forgives u
"In football, the greatest satisfaction is winning when they say you can't." - Robert Paul

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ballasyder
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LYM.randy and J I just want to tell you guys that you are trying to reject something you know nothing about.You two are asking simple questions that if you tried to find an answer could easily find one. And about christians in this thread not being educated there are thousands upon thousands of christians that are very educated not to mention God uses the simple things to dumbfound the wise(try to read the book of Proverbs). I am just actually concerened that you guys may have a view of christians that you got from some so called "christians" earlier in you life that was bad and now you turn your heart away from the things christians have to say when they try to tell you something. The smart thing to do would be to research it for yourself and not just disregard. try this website.

http://www.gotquestions.org/

ballasyder
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Floater, to answer you there are a few things. First God the father can't die but God the son(jesus) can die because he came in the flesh and flesh is doomed to die just like all of us, even though His Spirit lives forever. Second response is no christian can become sinless if they say they can they are lying and we only become sinless when we enter into heaven. It is impossible to be perfect.We just become more like God as we grow in our relationship with Christ but never perfect because of our human nature that is always with us, it's just Jesus helps us to overcome our nature. Third response is that you are right that God knows who is going to heaven and hell but also we know if we truly believe in Him and commit our lives to him. Intellect is the main point of christianity everything is reasonable, just do the research and you will find out. Is there any evidence that mohammed actually had divine visions from God? Even he wasn't sure they were divine or demonic for a long time.

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