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ballasyder
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Post by ballasyder » 27 Aug 2006, 16:18

I think that christians(me included) should not put all muslims in the same group as the musims that are terrorists, reason being that if people did that with Chistianity than people could look at some group of christians that are doing something offensive or whatever and totally assume all christians are the same. I think we should take the Koran and use the Bible to defend our faith with doctrine because the Word of God cuts deep into peoples hearts(hebrews 4:12). We as christians should love everyone and if you love someone you do whats best for them and try to lead them to the truth with the help of Jesus.

MikeTheMadKeeper
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Post by MikeTheMadKeeper » 27 Aug 2006, 16:49

As i said, i did not mean it to be offensive because i know that not all muslims are like that.

J
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Post by J » 27 Aug 2006, 18:10

MikeTheMadKeeper wrote: And also, why is it that only the muslims attacked the world trade center and do all of those terrorist acts and suicide bombings?
Could you explain why the Catholic church helped Nazis escape out of Germany after World War 2? And it took them up until a year or two ago to apologize??

Also, it certainly wasn't Muslims who bombed The federal bulding in Oklahoma. I believe the guy who did it was a pretty religous Christian.

FLscr007
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Post by FLscr007 » 27 Aug 2006, 19:29

How could we have evolved from monkeys? You know that when a species evolves the species that got evovled no longer exists. So if we evolved from monkeys, there would be no monkeys around. Something to ponder :roll:

*~El Maestro~*
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Post by *~El Maestro~* » 27 Aug 2006, 21:29

MikeTheMadKeeper wrote:Well if the Quran is what you follow then go ahead but Lucifer did not want to bow down to GOD. The Quran has some similarities with christian views of God and the devil but also differences. If you are muslims then the Quran is what you follow and that is what you believe. I don't think that I am made out of clay. And by the way, people can be evil without the devil because we have free will and people choose to do evil. And also, why is it that only the muslims attacked the world trade center and do all of those terrorist acts and suicide bombings? Suicide is a sin. Do they think that good is coming out of doing those things? I am not muslim obviously so maybe you could tell me and i don't read the quran because that does not have my beliefs in it so maybe you would know. This isn't meant to be offensive by the way.
You should believe what your relgion says. You do you and I do me u kno. I mean follow ur religion and I'll follow mine. Only muslims attacked the world trade center but not all terrorists are muslim. There are terrorists who commit acts against muslims too. I remember reading some stuff in the news about some people bombing mosques. Anybody can be a terrorist so stop stereotyping.(I know ur not trying to offend anybody) Do they think good is coming out of it? I dont know I'm not a terrorist. They took stuff from the religion and changed it into their own thing.
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ballasyder
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Post by ballasyder » 27 Aug 2006, 21:41

It's like MikeTheMadKeeper and I said that not all muslims are terrorists tho. lets let go of muslim being terrorists and the stereotyping subject and start getting down to the facts of reality and our purpose in this world. we should be discussing the real issues so we can find truth and not get emotional about what other people are saying because than we may become ingnorant of the truth.

Sputnik
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Post by Sputnik » 27 Aug 2006, 21:56

FLscr007 wrote:How could we have evolved from monkeys? You know that when a species evolves the species that got evovled no longer exists. So if we evolved from monkeys, there would be no monkeys around. Something to ponder :roll:
read my earlier post. what you said isnt quite true, its not like pokemon :wink:
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J
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Post by J » 27 Aug 2006, 23:38

MikeTheMadKeeper wrote:A monkey will do it on instinct if it is told to do it over and over and over again. If the command to do it is "Backflip" or something, it will do it because it has learned it. I never see a trained animal NOT do something it is trained to do. And as for eating, a dog will eat on instinct because it is hungry. A human will not because people have starved themselves(fasting. or just to die or to prove a point).

Pretty much, if you give a starving person a plate of food, they can choose not to eat it. If you give a starving animal food, it will eat it.( unless it is sick or something).

And J, if you want to consider yourself an ape and an animal you can go right ahead. I don't think of humans as animals because we are not. And by the way, ANYTHING can't be taught something but when taught and trained, a drug dog will not just say , "No i don't want to sniff out drugs". Because as far as i know, when the dog is told to do it, it will do it. After being taught it so much, it BECOMES instinct when told to do it. If you play soccer long enough and do certain things long enough( Like a certain little move when someone tries to take the ball from you) it becomes instinct because you are so used to doing it you don't think about it. Only difference, you can choose to do something else than that but a dog can only drug sniff and has no choice in the matter. When it hears the command, it acts on instinct that, "Oh, the 'go on boy, find it' command means i gotta find some drugs, better get to it." Bad example but thats my point. J, if someone tells you, "J, go and attack that person!" You can choose not to based on morals or anything of that sort. A dog or animal trained to do it or born with it will do it on insinct.

J, you are right that it is a learned behavior but when is the last time you saw a drug dog NOT sniff for drugs when people told them to. If they had free will, they could choose not to and yet they listen ALL the time. Learning is not a sign of free will because as i said, if animals couldn't learn, they would be dead.

I don't believe that we evolved from apes or monkeys becasue we didn't. We evolved right next to monkeys as our own species. It's been proven over and over again. I do not consider myself an ape.

You can think all you want that we are not animals, but the fact is that we are. Just because our adaptation is our brain doesn't mean we are not an animal. We are mammals. It's like saying a cheetah isn't an "animal" just because it can run at about 60 mph or how ever fast they can run.

To be honest there is really no difference in what you want to call us because we are what we are. The word isn't going to change that.

There is really no point in debating this any further because obviously you believe very much in your religon and I have a very different view on things.

But let me just ask you this real quick. If you need to know Jesus and believe in him to have eternal life and go to "heaven" and all that, then what does some kid do if he lives out in the middle of nowhere and has never been taught about Jesus or even heard of who he is? Does that mean he doesn't get the chance at "eternal life"?

MikeTheMadKeeper
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Post by MikeTheMadKeeper » 28 Aug 2006, 01:14

About the catholic thing, i am not catholic so i am not going to answer it.
For the Oklahoma bombing, he obviously WASN'T a christian but said he was because no real christian would kill people like that.
About the terrorists, any religion can be good with its people but yes the problem is that people twist it around to justify horrible acts.
J, what do you mean about the cheetah? I am talking about FREE WILL here. There is no other creature on this planet with free will except us. Think of it like that. EVERY other creature acts of insinct and yet we do not. We are not animals because of our free will. Forget religion for a second. Just think of it like that. Think of it like that everything acts on instinct EXCEPT humans! And don't say that because a cheetah runs faster than anything else it doesn't make it an animal because that is not a good point. We are talking about the way we LIVE and behave.
As for the little kid, pretty much yeah. But there is no way that is possible because EVERYONE gets a chance at accepting Jesus into their heart. You do not NEED to go to church. All you need to do is accept him into your heart and ask HIS forgivness, not a priest. If you ask a priest, you have done absolutely nothing for yourself, only told some guy that you did something wrong. Only God can forgive you, not a priest.
And yes you are right J i suppose debating on this is will lead us nowhere but i do not believe i am an animal because i act on morals and what is good and bad while animals act on instinct.

J
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Post by J » 28 Aug 2006, 01:21

MikeTheMadKeeper wrote: J, what do you mean about the cheetah? I am talking about FREE WILL here. There is no other creature on this planet with free will except us. Think of it like that. EVERY other creature acts of insinct and yet we do not.
The reason we do not is because we have an adaptation that we no longer need. Our intelligence is not of any use to us anymore. It actually affects us in more of a negaitve way now than a postive one.

Humans use to act on instinct all of the time, but now we think way too much into things. That is why we are the only species with things like gluttony, addcition, suicide, etc. We should be busy all day working for our survival.

Again, you are very into your religon and that is why we are going to have very different views on the way humans are and what we are. :)

I mean I am arguing with someone here who thinks that god pulled Eve out of Adams rib and that is how human civilization started...

The bottom line is that we are talking about a 'word'. It's not going to change who we are. There is absolutely no difference in what we call ourselves.
Last edited by J on 28 Aug 2006, 01:39, edited 2 times in total.

J
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Post by J » 28 Aug 2006, 01:23

MikeTheMadKeeper wrote:As for the little kid, pretty much yeah. But there is no way that is possible because EVERYONE gets a chance at accepting Jesus into their heart. You do not NEED to go to church. All you need to do is accept him into your heart and ask HIS forgivness, not a priest. If you ask a priest, you have done absolutely nothing for yourself, only told some guy that you did something wrong. Only God can forgive you, not a priest.
I said what if a kid has NEVER HEARD of Jesus or the christian religon AT ALL?? Does that mean he has no chance of having eternal life and going to "heaven"??

floater
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Post by floater » 28 Aug 2006, 01:48

J the answer to ur wuestion in islam is that God judges people to that extent that which he gave them blessings
if a person never heard of god or religion in their life, God will say that u werent in a situation to gain faith in me so you have no blame
the more blessings a person has the harder it is to get into heaven
ex: God has much more expectations from someone who can see vs. a blind person
i dont know about the christian point of view bc i'm not christian
"In football, the greatest satisfaction is winning when they say you can't." - Robert Paul

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J
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Post by J » 28 Aug 2006, 01:50

I am very interested in what a Christian says though because as far as I know they believe that the only way to have "eternal life" is to accept Jesus and have believe in him.

floater
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Post by floater » 28 Aug 2006, 01:54

o, i see
sorry man really cant help
"In football, the greatest satisfaction is winning when they say you can't." - Robert Paul

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floater
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Post by floater » 28 Aug 2006, 01:58

sorry but there is another confusing part in Christianity
Jesus dieing for ppl's sins and hwo if someone accepts Jesis all of their sins are forgiven even if they killed 2 million ppl
"In football, the greatest satisfaction is winning when they say you can't." - Robert Paul

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