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cfrealmadrid
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Post by cfrealmadrid » 08 Feb 2006, 22:51

Mrok wrote:lets see. u defidentally need to have penance for one, if you ask forgiveness and aren't truly sorrow for your sins and see how disgusting they r we will most likely sin again and ask for forgiveness and then therewill just be this cycle. with confession you need to be sorry and if u truly r sorry then u will recieve the graces from the sacremant to give u strength not to sin. and the more closer you get to God the more you will WANT to do penance.
yeah, but i thought the whole idea of jesus dying was so we didn't need to suffer from god's punishment, or in this case penance done so god will forgive us. to admit we need to punish ourselves is to essentially nullify jesus' sacrifice. he died in order for us to have the ability to gain forgiveness for our sins. if you ask forgiveness, you can't be "un-forgiven," so why punish yourself when someone else has already done it (to himself) for you? and as to the "cycle" you're talking about, here's something you may have heard before: humans are sinful by nature. no matter how hard you pray or punish yourself, you will always sin, every day until you die. penance will make you sin less maybe, but never completely stop. and to god, a person who commits one sin pays the same penalty as if he'd committed a million. and one more thing. if you WANT to do it, it isn't really punishment is it?
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ROIUSA
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Post by ROIUSA » 09 Feb 2006, 22:51

"to admit we need to punish ourselves is to essentially nullify jesus' sacrifice. he died in order for us to have the ability to gain forgiveness for our sins"

that was clutch
I was raised on Celtic, their history and their pride
With my culture and my faith, I wear the green & white.

They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who does not want to be broken -Bobby Sands MP

cfrealmadrid
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Post by cfrealmadrid » 10 Feb 2006, 00:02

sorry, i don't quite understand what you mean.
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ROIUSA
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Post by ROIUSA » 12 Feb 2006, 17:53

clutch=it was a good point
I was raised on Celtic, their history and their pride
With my culture and my faith, I wear the green & white.

They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who does not want to be broken -Bobby Sands MP

BenAMsoccer
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Post by BenAMsoccer » 12 Feb 2006, 20:02

I don't really think that type of pennance is biblical. Wouldn't that be legalism? Works can't make you a better Christian. Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Then how are we supposed to despise sin, and sin less? Psalm 37:4
Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. = When we delight in him our desires will be to sin less, and with God's help wont we be able to do this? The more time we spend with Jesus Christ the less we will sin.

Mrok
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Post by Mrok » 13 Feb 2006, 11:51

BenAMsoccer wrote: Psalm 37:4
Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. = When we delight in him our desires will be to sin less, and with God's help wont we be able to do this? The more time we spend with Jesus Christ the less we will sin.
Yes, we delight the Lord by not sinning but, this is a 2 person thing you need to do your part by recieving the sacraments with the right disposition for God to help you. an exmple would be this:
a person wants to train their dog to go to the bathroom outside. but the dog just doesn't get it. you need the person to take the dog out everytime the dog has an axident and say 'Bad dog!' and the dog needs to understand not to go to the bathroom in the house by using their own judgement and letting the owner know they need to go.

so, the answer to your question would be yes.
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Mrok
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Post by Mrok » 13 Feb 2006, 11:58

and yah, getting closer to God is a great way to despise sin, but you need someone to help you. my mom helped me and Sr. Mary Anne and the Catholic Church so basicsally i had thousands of ppl out there helping me. before this i was just like *oh yah, ppl are sinning big deal* but then from EWTN (eternal world television netwok) i learned (and from the Seton program) i learned that it would be better for someone to die a horrible death or suffer great pains than to commit one sin. their r SOOOO many ppl that are walking in malls that r just sooooo dead from sin and they don't even realize it. i almost barfed b/c i was so disgusted.
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"Soccer is simple... you just need to have the right mentality, fighting in every game, in every practice and for every ball." Hristo Stoichkov

Mrok
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Post by Mrok » 13 Feb 2006, 12:20

cfrealmadrid wrote: and to god, a person who commits one sin pays the same penalty as if he'd committed a million. and one more thing.
i have a q. for you.how do you really think God is like that? but, lets think about what you said. lets suppose you take a pile of dirt and throw it at at a fellow workers face. you might get a punch in the nose. suppose you throw a handful of dirt in the foreman's face, you will probably be fired on the spot. now suppose you thow a handful of dirt in the governer's face, you will probably be fined or imprisoned for disorderly conduct. finally suppose you throw dirt in the President's face. in time of war, this might be enough to get you a stiff prison term. now sin is like throwing dirt into the face of God.each act took the same time but it depends on how much you really enjoyed sinning which makes it a Mortal sin or a Veniel sin. oh, about what u said '1 sin pays the same penalty as if he commited a million.' it really depends on the sin.
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BenAMsoccer
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Post by BenAMsoccer » 13 Feb 2006, 17:30

Mrok lets think of your dog illustration for a minute. Who punishes and chastens the dog, is it not the master? The dog does not completely know right and wrong so how can he adequately punish himself? Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.


2 Samuel 7:14
I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
God is a just judge and only he can give the correct punishment for sin. One way to tell you are God's child is he chastens you when you disobey. We are nothing but sinners, only God remove sin from our lives. There is a type of pennance mentioned in the Bible, but the correct word is lamenting(hence the of book Lamentations).
It means to mourn over sin, and to weep when it is commited. When we sin we should confess it and bring it to the Lord in prayer, and have a deep sorrow over it but, shouldnt go any farther. You also said that all sin is not equal, but yet Gods word says the wages of sin is death. It didn't say the wages of lying or stealing, but all sin. Please everyone stop defending your faith with illustrations, but use Gods word, not your own.

cfrealmadrid
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Post by cfrealmadrid » 13 Feb 2006, 21:04

Mrok wrote:
cfrealmadrid wrote: and to god, a person who commits one sin pays the same penalty as if he'd committed a million. and one more thing.
i have a q. for you.how do you really think God is like that? but, lets think about what you said. lets suppose you take a pile of dirt and throw it at at a fellow workers face. you might get a punch in the nose. suppose you throw a handful of dirt in the foreman's face, you will probably be fired on the spot. now suppose you thow a handful of dirt in the governer's face, you will probably be fined or imprisoned for disorderly conduct. finally suppose you throw dirt in the President's face. in time of war, this might be enough to get you a stiff prison term. now sin is like throwing dirt into the face of God.each act took the same time but it depends on how much you really enjoyed sinning which makes it a Mortal sin or a Veniel sin. oh, about what u said '1 sin pays the same penalty as if he commited a million.' it really depends on the sin.
ok, here's what i mean. if you commit one sin, the penalty is that you go to hell (assuming you're not a christian [and also, this is according to my personal point of view, just so i make that clear]). if you commit a million sins, well, you still go to hell. it doesn't matter what the sin is. if you are conscious that it wasn't the right thing to do, then it's a sin. it doesn't matter what it was, only that you knew it was wrong. you go to hell regardless of the number of sins you committed or the "severity" (which is non-existant by the way, due to lack of standards by which we would judge each sin) of each sin.
Mrok wrote:and yah, getting closer to God is a great way to despise sin, but you need someone to help you. my mom helped me and Sr. Mary Anne and the Catholic Church so basicsally i had thousands of ppl out there helping me. before this i was just like *oh yah, ppl are sinning big deal* but then from EWTN (eternal world television netwok) i learned (and from the Seton program) i learned that it would be better for someone to die a horrible death or suffer great pains than to commit one sin. their r SOOOO many ppl that are walking in malls that r just sooooo dead from sin and they don't even realize it. i almost barfed b/c i was so disgusted.
yeah i get what you mean. i guess i'm becoming more desensitized (sp) to it all, which is kind of a two-way thing. on the one hand, i hate to downplay everything that's corrupting the world and its people (there's a lot), but on the other, i hate to realize that a majority of people will go to hell when they die (again, just my personal belief) and go around depressed all the time. i don't mean to become like everyone else, i just mean sometimes you just need to know when people are just going to ignore what you say and do what they want anyway (not referring to what i'm doing at all, i'm just saying.).
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Mrok
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Post by Mrok » 26 Feb 2006, 12:26

BenAMsoccer wrote:Mrok lets think of your dog illustration for a minute. Who punishes and chastens the dog, is it not the master? The dog does not completely know right and wrong so how can he adequately punish himself?
o-k, taht was a bad example i admit :oops: . u can't compare a human being to an animal.
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Horris
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Post by Horris » 27 Feb 2006, 06:59

hey if you commit one sin you are not garunteed to go straight to hell, because otherwise everyone on this planet is going to go hell. god loves us and would want some of us in heaven with him so he aint going to send you to hell if you commit one single sin.
"The pain won't last forever but the memories will"

cfrealmadrid
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Post by cfrealmadrid » 28 Feb 2006, 00:57

yes, actually he is (according to my religion). the point is that jesus christ died though, and in the process paid the penalty for each one of our sins. if you ask forgiveness from god, he will grant it to you, and you will be accepted into heaven. sin separates humans from god, and he can't be around it, so anyone who sins would go to hell normally. unless they accept jesus' sacrifice, and ask forgiveness. make sense?
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Horris
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Post by Horris » 01 Mar 2006, 04:57

ok now i understand, what religion is that?
"The pain won't last forever but the memories will"

cfrealmadrid
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Post by cfrealmadrid » 01 Mar 2006, 21:43

just christianity. specifically, i'm a methodist, but those are the basic concepts of what all christianity is about.
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