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shahensha
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naw, marrying non muslims is forbidden for men as equally as it is for women according to the Quran.

If anything, muslims are allowed to marry people of the book (christians & jews) outside of islam but truth be told, i dont think that is stated in the Quran.

klc123
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I have read a verse from the Quran saying that is it not forbidden for Muslim men to marry Women of the book, as you said Christanity and Judaism. I can see how this is far if the same is also the same for Women. However many seem to twist the Quran and interpret it as differently for Women.

Just wanted to hear opinions on it.

Are you Muslim shahensha?

shahensha
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its cool. I am muslim, which is why I felt the need to share my opinion.

yes, i agree the chauvinists really twist the religion.

klc123
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So do you think Muslims should be allowed to marry those from other religions of the book, or do you think Muslims should be only allowed to marry Muslims. If so, what is your reasoning behind this?

shahensha
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I support the rule that is muslims should only be allowed to marry other muslims. Avoids potential disputes due to religious differences when raising children. Even though jews, muslims and christians believe in the existence of the same being, they have refused to see eye to eye for a long time......safe to say they still dont.

klc123
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I'm not been funny, but that is only your opinion.

I have an auntie who is Muslim and who married my blood uncle who is Catholic, and they have two kids who are Catholic. Are you saying that she is going to hell because she married a Catholic? Are you saying she is corrupted and is a sinner purely because of the religion of her husband?

My girlfriend is Muslim and I am catholic, my parents do not care about her religion and her parents do not care, does that mean that her parents are bad parents and have turned their back on their faith?

What is wrong with a Muslim having kids who are not Muslim? Are you trying to promote Religious dominance, or are you trying to promote a belief in God and to make better people? Because when you start trying to control you children's faith and belief, you are most certainly not thinking about them or them getting closer to what they believe in.

In my opinion, that's more of a sin than marrying someone who isn't of the same religion.

You might as well promote marrying different races as a sin, because that is essentially the same type of racism.

evo
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In my opinion religion has held back the human race and is very much out-dated. It's completely corrupt. I honestly can't see how people believe in it. Although saying that I do realise how in less well developed countries it is more wide spread as people need to find hope but it's sad that their hope comes from corrupt people feeding lies.

If anyone gets angry at me for saying this then you are just proving my point. Please don't try to convince me that their is a god because I will just laugh at everything you say.

shahensha
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klc123 wrote:I'm not been funny, but that is only your opinion.
ofcourse...you asked for my opinion through a question that wasnt open-ended, remember? :roll:

klc123 wrote: I have an auntie who is Muslim and who married my blood uncle who is Catholic, and they have two kids who are Catholic. Are you saying that she is going to hell because she married a Catholic? Are you saying she is corrupted and is a sinner purely because of the religion of her husband?
:? ....haha hell yeah to all of that son, go read what I wrote again if you are not sure...

No, I never said she was going to hell. If she does more good deeds than bad, then obviously she will go to heaven. Think about it son, many sins and good deeds will be counted collectively.

klc123 wrote: My girlfriend is Muslim and I am catholic, my parents do not care about her religion and her parents do not care, does that mean that her parents are bad parents and have turned their back on their faith?
really? yet, you say your knowledge is pretty limited. you did indeed. unfortunately, i am not an expert in reading between the lines like yourself... :(

if she is raised with good moral fibres and believes in god...then, no
if they still believe in god and do good deeds with him in mind....again, no

klc123 wrote: What is wrong with a Muslim having kids who are not Muslim? Are you trying to promote Religious dominance, or are you trying to promote a belief in God and to make better people? Because when you start trying to control you children's faith and belief, you are most certainly not thinking about them or them getting closer to what they believe in.

In my opinion, that's more of a sin than marrying someone who isn't of the same religion.
:shock: how did you know of my masterplan?! you are a clever one, indeed. Sure, thats your opinion and techincally God's too because Islam means "peacefully submitting to the will of God", but does it look like I care? Nein! Soon I shall take over the world!!! muhaaa :twisted:

No, I mostly said that because I personally wouldnt want to force my child to chose a religion. However, speaking of other people, some force their religion, which is again why I said its better to stick to one. If they dont then kudos to them because they know the meaning of islam and are not sinning by breaking it.
klc123 wrote: You might as well promote marrying different races as a sin, because that is essentially the same type of racism.
:lol: Thats like saying you are essentially dumber and funnier than the villiage idiot.

if you read all that and took it seriously then i must tell you......click, hold and drag.....or just press quote


marrying an arab or a latina from seville is out of the question then eh? Thanks klc, I decided to answer your questions about my religion and in turn you have branded me a racist.....face-to the fu**ing-palm... hahaha

terminator
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@klc123:

Can I just ask, what are you trying to achieve with questions like these? Just be honest.
Lets say I give a nice,logical,rational answer....would that make you look at Islam in a more positive light? Would you have learnt anything useful about Islam?

No, you would have just learnt an "answer".

Everybody is already so charged up with polemics in these kind of debates. We, as muslims, are already at a disadvantaged position in these debates.The fact that many people don't know Jesus(pbuh) is considered a Messiah in Islam(a very fundamental belief) yet they know and criticize about complex aspects of Sharia Law shows it really is pointless.

Whatever I or Shahensha wouldn't make any difference.

klc123, I don't have all the answers. I don't know how God will judge someone. It is ENTIRELY UPTO GOD. Someone could have prayed but were mean to their parents might go to Hell whereas someone else who didn't pray but took care of their parents might go Heaven. Islam is just "guidelines" and it is there to help you know yourself and think about God.

The beauty of Islam is that, we have absolutely no idea what God is like.
I will give you some advice. It is summed up by this saying:
The Prophet(pbuh) said something along the lines of
"He who knows himself, knows his Lord;"

@evo:

What about the arabs? They didn't come into history books until Islam. Alexander the Great passsed them by... the Romans, the Greeks passed them by...they were backward people who would bury female babies, deprive women of their dower through means which have been abolished in Islam etc etc.

Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

panchester07
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"He who knows himself, knows his Lord;"
Holy tits that quote is one of the most magnificent things and ways of explaining religion that i have ever read...

Some people really want like, a chart that explains, well you sinned here, so thats 1 step to hell, but you did a good deed overhere, thats 2 to heaven.. You aren't gonna find that, just be as good as possible, love your brothers and sisters, and do what you consider best, if you have a feeling something is wrong or something is right, 97% of the time your gonna be correct...

"He who knows himself, knows his Lord;"

Beast!

Could you explain some more on what this quote is intended to mean¿?
to know Him is to want to know Him more"


"i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not"

Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..'

klc123
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I apologise shahensha, I wasn't outright having a go at you, but more frustrated with some of the logic behind what some Muslims believe.

Terminator:
If I believe in God, and my girlfriend believes in God, and we both respect the same values and each others different ones, then what is the problem regardless of faith?

I look at Islam in a positive light, but I look at some of its preachers in a bad light. The same can be said for certain people in my own church however.

The point of the question was to find out peoples opinions on the topic at hand, and to understand why they think that way, because I don't understand why they would think in some ways.

I don't even know what Sharia Law is completely and I do not pretend to. All I know about it is that it is Gods law for many different aspects of life.

I have nothing against Muslim people, obviously I am friends with many and my girlfriend is one and she is the nicest girl I have ever met. But any religion that promotes Sexual Inequality is backward in my opinion.

Icy
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I apologise shahensha, I wasn't outright having a go at you, but more frustrated with some of the logic behind what some Muslims believe.
And I get frustrated sometimes hearing people have 100% proof [any] god exists. Yet, I don't feel that gives me a good enough reason to be an ass.

klc123 wrote: I have nothing against Muslim people, obviously I am friends with many and my girlfriend is one and she is the nicest girl I have ever met. But any religion that promotes Sexual Inequality is backward in my opinion.
...Have you read the Bible? Or, wait, you only have to follow parts of it you agree with. Nevermind, move along. :roll:
"Somewhere along the line, we seem to have confused comfort with happiness"

klc123
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I never claimed to have 100% truth that God exists...

And yeah I have read the Bible, and yes I agree there are some bits that I do not agree with.

However, even the Pope the leader of the Church, does not take all of the Bible literally, is that seriously what you are trying to suggest.

I would think nothing more if there was a few lines in the Qu'ran that came across as been wrong or suggesting things I believe are completely wrong.

But the problem lies in the fact that one of the main principals of the Religion suggests that Women are unequal.

One of the key principals is that Muslim men can marry and have a family with women of any religion of the book, EG Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

However it says that Muslim women must only marry a Muslim man.

And it is not that this is a dated principal that Muslims over look, which is the case with many of the false teachings that can be interpreted from the Bible, on the contrary, the vast majority of Muslims tend to agree with this view. Whether it is man's greed and twisting of law to benefit themselves so they can have 4 wife's as the Qu'ran permits, or that they believe that women are not strong enough to raise a Muslim family with a non Muslim husband, either way, it promotes inequality.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not suggesting that Islam is a religion for men who like to fornicate with more than one women and put women in their place or what ever, but what I am saying is that such outlandish teachings in other religions are completely denounced, and almost all the followers reject it. That is the key problem I have.

All Religions are flawed, but the important thing is that people who believe in the Religion and preach the Religion, should have the common sense and judgement, to realise when something their Religion has taught them is false.

Want an example? The Bible teaches to take a life from someone who has taken a life from another. This teaching comes from a time when it was common practise to execute people who committed a crime, never mind murder...However now a days all people who are true believers of Christianity believe this is wrong... If we can come to a conclusion like this, over something as difficult to judge as punishing murderers, then surely Muslims can realise they preach inequality.

shahensha
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no problem klc, i cant blame you for being agressive about this topic considering that people who argue for their specific religion tend to be close-minded.

I dont have all the reasoning behind certain rules but I try to interpret them and keep my mind open to other interpretations

As for the whole issue of marrying people of the book. A muslim man cannot force his jew/christian wife to change her religion or force her to avoid teaching her beliefs to their children. I dont know if there is any specific rule like that in judaism and christianity. The husband-wife dynamic is a lot about mutual respect and protection (both physical and mental). The Quran only allows a man to have 4 wives if he can treat them all equally in all aspects of life.

I am not sure how the husband-wife dynamic plays out in christianity and judaism either, but perhaps the jew/christian husband might force his muslim wife to abide by his rules, which means a wife might either renounce her religion or stay true to her faith and get harsh treatment from her husband for disobedience ( a lose-lose situation really). Granted there are many husbands that are open-minded and understanding, but unfortunately we all know those numbers are really very little (no matter what the religion)

As for the whole gender equality issue in islam, the concept is a bit tricky for non-muslims to understand. Although men and women have different roles and responsibilities, their importance is very equal. Equality isnt necessarily same as similarity though.

Take for example, a man came to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and asked him, "Who amongst my near ones has the greatest right over me?"

The Prophet replied, "Your mother".

The man then asked, "Who after that?"

The Prophet replied again, "Your mother".

The man then asked, "who is next?"

The Prophet again replied, "Your mother".

The man then asked, "who after that?"

The Prophet said, "Your father".



According to the Prophet (along with the Quran, his words are the only correct source of guidance for muslims), the worth of the mother is three times more significant than that of the father and deservedly so, imo. The man just leaves his seed and takes it easy and the woman has to bear all the painful work.....Thank God, I am a man... :lol:

Another example is that it is the major responsibility of the man to be the bread winner of the family and the woman's major role is to instill moral and societal values in her children in order to raise gentlemen/women. However, a woman can work if she chooses to do so as long as she also fulfills her priorities.....but here is the catch....since its not her responsiblity to provide for her family financially, she doesnt have to spend a single dime of her earned money for her family. The male on the other hand must spend a share of his earned money for the well being of his family, even if he doesnt want to share.

These are only a few examples that suggest islam isnt a religion of male chauvinists. There are many more subtle details that are usually overlooked by those who follow the religion, let alone those who dont.

terminator
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panchester07 wrote:
"He who knows himself, knows his Lord;"
Holy tits that quote is one of the most magnificent things and ways of explaining religion that i have ever read...

Some people really want like, a chart that explains, well you sinned here, so thats 1 step to hell, but you did a good deed overhere, thats 2 to heaven.. You aren't gonna find that, just be as good as possible, love your brothers and sisters, and do what you consider best, if you have a feeling something is wrong or something is right, 97% of the time your gonna be correct...

"He who knows himself, knows his Lord;"

Beast!

Could you explain some more on what this quote is intended to mean¿?
I wanted to post a story or an analogy if you will which is related to this quote. However, I couldn't find the source so I didn't do it. But this is what I heard from someone.

He said that a Muslim Philosopher Al Ghazali described Islam the best way possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazali

"There was a king who told two painters...describe to me Islam the best way you can with a painting.
One of the painters started drawing up a picture of palaces and other beautiful things. While the other painter started cleaning the palace tiles!

He kept cleaning them until they shone. The king came up to the painter who was cleaning and asked what he was doing. The painter told him to look into the tiles and that is Islam. The king saw himself..."


I don't know if that helped but basically, Islam is about yourself. It is not about other people, other religions, politics, showing someone how perfect and right our religion is or how to live a perfect life etc etc

It is about knowing yourself and trying to have that connection with God. Another beautiful thing about Islam is, there can be no intermediaries! No imam,no priest..no one else. It is only up to you to put in the effort to be close to God.

Even today, some muslims go to a person well versed in the Qu'ran to pray for their own dead parents. That is haram and I am against it! You YOURSELF are supposed to pray to God for your own parents.

I, myself haven't read any of Ghazali's works so don't take my word. Anyway hope that helped.

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