expert just owned sputnik.
I didnt put forward my
point of view, with expert disproving it.
Rather i put forward a
way of thinking and put it up for debate. This topic isnt about destroying other people's way of thinking, just pointing out different facts and opinions to perhaps help people see things in a different light. I myself do not necessarily believe all of what i said in my first post, it was just something i sometimes think about. In that way expert did teach me as his post has been the most informative and 'enlightening' (excuse the pun). Just to clarify the purpose of my post and this topic.
Anyways, I am a catholic and expert pretty much said my points but if science created us all, then why? and what created that little spark of science that started us all? what created the world that we live on? it just happened one day? there has to have been something that created us. A higher power must have created us. How could science just created us and the world, because then what created the small little particle or rock or even space? and if there was nothing in the world no planets no space no air no stars no black darkness in space, then what does nothing look like? because if we try and picture that , what comes to my mind is whiteness, but that is still something. Something had to have created us, and i am sorry, but i believe that there is a god, and i believe he is carrying me each day and his fate is in his hands.
What you just explained was the causation arguement. No one believes science created us. However science proves that the big bang did happen 15 billion years ago, and that evolution created all life on earth. Maybe God is the reason for evolution, maybe God is mother nature, and the spark of life. As for the big bang, it has been proven that the universe's expantion from its initial 'explosion' is decreasing and will eventually reverse (we can tell this because there must be infinate stars in the universe so how comes at night we are not blinded by ligt? because the universe is expanding so light from different stars takes longer to get here with movement). 'nothing' is either a vortex, a vacuum, or an event horison (black hole) all of which you do not associate with white light but with black. Justv my opinion on some of your points/
Sputnik wrote:Like if God created a person and they murder someone, God created that person exactly how he meant it, and the situation under which they commited the muder, and on top of that he knew from the moment they were born (and before) they would commit that act.
The Bible states very clearly that humans adopted free will when Adam & Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Then God condemned them to an imperfect material existance of labor and suffering. Notice that prior to that everything was good (there was no pain, death, shame, etc) BUT through the existence of evil (or variation of good and bad) also came free will. Without evil there is no free will.
Sputnik wrote:And if God created humans, created dna, and created their personality, and the situation they would be in, god practically created their ractions to certain situations.
Your personality is determined NOT ONLY by your genetics by your environment and your interaction with others (who have free will)
I don't belive in any religion but I like the teachings of Buddhism.
I agree with your first point, well explained. The second point you state 'who have free will'. think of it like a computer program, if god created everything in the beginning, it is like he derived a programme. He created it and let it run, from the big bang onwards. Likewise he created the universe and therefore only one outcome was ever possible. If he 'ran the programme again' the outcome would still be the same. Like with a murder, when god 'created the programme' in the beginning, the configuration that led to that murder was already inputed, and run again the exact same thing would happen; therefore if only one outcome will ever happen then there can be no free will. all this is, again, hypothetical.
you said a person, being born into a box, and not committing any sins, would go to hell because they were not a christian. there's a pretty good explanation for that. there's something in christianity called the "age of accountability." it's not the same for every person. it's basically the moment you can adequately realize what's right, and what's wrong (sin), you're accountable for your actions. not just "oh, mom will put me in timeout if i write on the walls," but rather "i'm not going to steal because it wouldn't be right morally." if a person lived in a box their whole life, they wouldn't have the experiences to teach them one thing is wrong and one thing is right. the same goes for babies, mentally handicapped, and young children who die and cannot really tell the difference between sin and good deeds. as far as people who just never hear of him...that's one of the things i don't understand, and probably never will. i know it sounds stupid, but you just have to believe when it comes to that subject.
Also a good and helpful explination, thanks.
In sometype of way i do believe in god, but religon is a crutch for the weak minded in my opinion. The bible wasnt born in your hands, another human put it there.
there has to have been something that created us. A higher power must have created us.
We humans tend to look for meaning in everything. I mean who wants to belive that we're here by accident or for no reason at all.
I like to think we are here for no purpose, i do not like the idea of a set fate that God already knows. If i were here for no reason at all i could find my own purpose independantly, which i like the thought of, then i have no one else to blame.
Sorry for the long post, peace