Conneticut elementary school shooting

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scottS4
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Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by scottS4 » 14 Dec 2012, 21:31

Driving home today, I heard on the radio that there was a mass shooting at an elementary school in Conneticut today. Checking the news when I got home, it looks like almost 30 people were killed, the majority of which would have been young kids. Unbelievable.

I'm sure most of you have heard about this by now?
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Rome_Leader
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by Rome_Leader » 14 Dec 2012, 23:46

Of course, just devestating to hear. Pretty sure everyone's familiar with the details, and it almost tears me up to think about all those poor children... It can be easy to distance one's self from a shooting involving adults, even high school students. But when we're talking about dead children... Nobody, absolutely nobody, wants to be on the opposite end of that despite the fact that we live in a binary world.

To me this is just proof that gun control laws in the US are a joke. I'm from Canada and I wouldn't know how to obtain a handgun if (for lack of a better phrase) my life depended on it. Here the biggest stink that gets kicked up is over our long gun registry, and whether it is too much of a hassle to register your hunting rifles for shooting moose. In the US, you can basically walk into a K-Mart and get outfitted with automatic weaponry. It is a joke. This monster's mother was killed by a gun she purchased, registered in her name. That's going to get spun a lot of different ways, but the point is, weapons are too readily available in the US.

I can only hope some positive change will come from this terrible incident, and that the US takes a long hard look at gun control and what can be done to mitigate future incidents. We're some 13 years out of Columbine now, and I remember it like it was yesterday. Sad to think things have seemingly only gotten more violent. Here's a scary statistic: 6 of the 12 deadliest school shootings in US history have occured since 2007. That is frankly ridiculous. Something needed to be done yesterday about this.

God help those poor surviving children and the families in that community.
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panchester07
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by panchester07 » 16 Dec 2012, 22:39

TURN OFF THE NEWS.......

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
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soccer11
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by soccer11 » 17 Dec 2012, 12:43

There's multiple reasons for why this happened. Guns, Mental Health, a society of violence.
It's crazy how easy guns can be purchased in this couintry. The gun culture in this country is out of control. I'm not saying ban all guns (the NRA would never allow that) but is there really a need for a semi-automatic assault rifles? Do you really need to be able to shoot x amount of rounds and quickly reload? There's absolutely no need for this type of weaponry in a "civilized" coutnry. If you're using a gun for "self defense," as they so often claim, do you need more than a revolver? 6 shots. It should be more than enough. There is never a situation where you need to shoot off 100 shots in about 10 minutes. Just no need.

This guy was obviously wacko and I think his mom knew it. The news was saying that his mother quit her job a few years back to "look after her son Adam." Keep in mind that he was about 18 years old at this time. There was something there that she saw, whatever that might have been. Did she seek mental health for her son? We don't know yet, but if she didn't and she knew something was wrong with him, to the point of her quitting her job to take care of him, then she was irresponsible.
Also, the conservatives in this country are calling for "mental Health" which I think is code for "look at anything except for the guns." This is kind of ironic because someone would have to pay for these mental health sessions (whatever that might be) and these are the same people who want nothing to do with Universal Health Care. How the fu** are these people supposed to get Health Care (yes, mental health falls into this category) when they can't pay for it and you don't want Universal health care? It's silly.
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by Rome_Leader » 17 Dec 2012, 20:25

Agreed with s11. What people seem to forget so easily is that when the Founding Fathers of America wrote that bit into the constiution about the right to bear arms, automatic weaponry didn't exist. Revolvers in this day and age should be plenty for home security.

Can't believe the woman had all this weaponry, though. I know it was legally obtained, but seriously... She sounded a bit nuts herself from some of the things I've heard. Wanted the weapons to defend her home in case of an economic collapse...

Mental health is definitely a huge issue too. Out of all the coverage, I think this piece is the most sincere and relatable, and deserves a read:

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by panchester07 » 18 Dec 2012, 01:20

damn romes you beat me to it, i was gonna post the same article a few days back..

that article blew my mind, like nothing else. "Regular" people don't see this happen, the crazyest people I know are just regular potheads mostly, I don't think I know anybody thats been arrested for more than aday, but this world is so huge that theres all type of people out there. I don't understand the mental health issue but i do have observations two observations:

1) are there a lot of more mentally sick people in the first world and very developed countries? there seems to be a trend, it might become mainstream, i insist i've been to many countries in the world and the only country where i turn on the tv and i hear comercials about prozac and cymbalta is in the USA. dude its heavily comercialized, its gone mainstream, theres hundreds of evidence that television numbs you out and in that time you are much more sugestible to what you see in propaganda, thats a technique company's use to make millions, company's like mcdonalds, walmart, nike, and quicksilver, but really, comercialize, sell, spread, difuse, mental health "medication" (which is simply drugs that give your brain chemicals like serotonin or dopamine, oxytocin, chemicals that can be produced naturally by falling inlove, having a religion and spiritual beliefs, etc)...... for means of profit? there exist and "internet adiction disorder" dude, we've gone that far

2) apart from me seeing a trend in the exageration of "disorders" among these first world countries, there is also the polar oposite like this case, there are some tremendously sick people, 20 years back to now, there's been a 200% increase in Austism. I don't know much about autisim, but i understand your like unable to connect with people, and you also have some outstanding gifts, these gifts could also easily manifest in negative forms, like ridiculous amounts of anger and rage when the use of electronics has been denied by his mother, at the noble age of 13. why this is happening i don't know, why do you in the day to day, everything seems pretty fine, people look pretty jolly, your classmates seem pretty normal, the people in the mall all seem fine, sure maybe you can argue all these people are unfaithful in there marriages, owe a sh*t load of money to the bank, are adicted to cigaretes, sure everybody has mild issues, but on the daily basis its really weird to apretiate people that whack, we are seeing an increase in really severe mental issues and thats concerning. we have to take concience in what we aredoing wrong, because its not true that it has always been this way. people put a lot of things blindly into their bodies, things that are horrible for you and affect you in more ways than you know, things like high fructose corn syrup, aspartame, or even shots that doctors give you, contain a lot of bad stuff. they say pharmaceutical company's start making life long customers when they give the baby the first inyection..... of course, the issue is more than just a mother intaking a lot of preservarants and toxic crap when she is pregnant, theres a lot more too it, but those are theories that could point to an answer to why theres an increase in mad people
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by Zlatan5 » 18 Dec 2012, 06:16

It's a horrible tragedy. It's to be honest, very hard to determine if it was preventable. But, I will say this, I am so sick and tired of hearing extremist gun control activists and pacifists give their insights and opinions. I am a firearms advocate- I'll say it openly and plainly, I like guns, I like to shoot them, and I'd love to own one (I just haven't gotten around to saving up money to purchase one at this current time, which may change if these stricter laws are to be put in place.). Without getting too much into ethical reasons and the such, I always ask this question in regards to the "assault weapon" issue.

The general populace wants to ban AR-15's and the such. They say they're not a necessary weapon to own, for any reason. My retort is, if you believe that- I ask you this...Why should Ferraris, Lamborghini's, and any car above 200 horsepower exist or be purchasable? They have no purpose.The point of a car is to get from point A to B. Logic would agree that a Ferrari and a AR-15 have the same potential for harm- so it would be logical to ban super cars.

I heard Piers Morgan today call AR-15's a weapon of mass death, well...if someone were to hypothetically speaking go on a rampage and murder 30 people with a fireaxe, or even better yet...run kids over in a school yard with their car (which has happened btw), common logic would have to say that they would be weapons of mass murder as well. Okay, by no means do I want guns being super easy to access...but to outlaw them would be preposterously outrageous. I am all for stricter control on obtaining them...psych tests...more stringent background checks...maybe even license requirements.

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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by scottS4 » 18 Dec 2012, 06:55

Zlatan5 wrote:It's a horrible tragedy. It's to be honest, very hard to determine if it was preventable. But, I will say this, I am so sick and tired of hearing extremist gun control activists and pacifists give their insights and opinions. I am a firearms advocate- I'll say it openly and plainly, I like guns, I like to shoot them, and I'd love to own one (I just haven't gotten around to saving up money to purchase one at this current time, which may change if these stricter laws are to be put in place.). Without getting too much into ethical reasons and the such, I always ask this question in regards to the "assault weapon" issue.

The general populace wants to ban AR-15's and the such. They say they're not a necessary weapon to own, for any reason. My retort is, if you believe that- I ask you this...Why should Ferraris, Lamborghini's, and any car above 200 horsepower exist or be purchasable? They have no purpose.The point of a car is to get from point A to B. Logic would agree that a Ferrari and a AR-15 have the same potential for harm- so it would be logical to ban super cars.

I heard Piers Morgan today call AR-15's a weapon of mass death, well...if someone were to hypothetically speaking go on a rampage and murder 30 people with a fireaxe, or even better yet...run kids over in a school yard with their car (which has happened btw), common logic would have to say that they would be weapons of mass murder as well. Okay, by no means do I want guns being super easy to access...but to outlaw them would be preposterously outrageous. I am all for stricter control on obtaining them...psych tests...more stringent background checks...maybe even license requirements.

I don't think its the same thing at all. Ferraris would have the same effect on a parking lot full of kids as a datsun or volvo. Banning them wouldn't get rid of the risk of someone mowing down a parking lot full of people. Automatic or semi-automatic weapons on the other hand, have way more potential to inflict damage than revolvers.
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by expert » 18 Dec 2012, 08:18

1) are there a lot of more mentally sick people in the first world and very developed countries? there seems to be a trend, it might become mainstream, i insist i've been to many countries in the world and the only country where i turn on the tv and i hear comercials about prozac and cymbalta is in the USA.
I think this is partly caused by the sociological differences. In less developed countries, families in general are more tightly bound. For example, kids tend to live with their parents until a much older age and I suspect there are less single parents per capita in contrast to the USA. It's hard to define what's "mentally sick" but I suspect the reasons I mentioned play a role in why wackos in the US are more likely to go on killing sprees.
2) apart from me seeing a trend in the exageration of "disorders" among these first world countries, there is also the polar oposite like this case, there are some tremendously sick people, 20 years back to now, there's been a 200% increase in Austism. I don't know much about autisim, but i understand your like unable to connect with people, and you also have some outstanding gifts
Outside of the US a lot of these "disorders" are not diagnosed at all. :)

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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by Zlatan5 » 18 Dec 2012, 08:42

I understand what you're saying, but you do realize that automatic weapons are not legal in the US right? And, that a "semi-automatic" weapon is simply a gun that is not a "bolt gun" (example: sniper rifle/hunting rifle) or shotgun correct? A handgun in itself is a semi-automatic weapons, as is a revolver. A semi-automatic without sounding condescending and redundant is simply a firearm that does not require one to reload the chamber manually after every shot fired. To prohibit the ownership of semi-automatic weaponry in America would be a major violation of the United States constitution, as the act would thus make every gun-owner in the United States a criminal, and ex-post facto laws themselves are protected against in the constitution. The only way to solve it would be some sort of compensation for all the guns (300,000,000 of them in circulation in the US) in America, which will never happen, considering how messed up our economy already is.

Again...I hate gun debates, because everyone has their own opinion, and it is human nature for everyone to have their own opinion. For example, I am a strong supporter of owning firearms for the reason of protection, I know people who's houses have been broken into, and thankfully deescalated the situation without any injuries. One of my friend's best friend was killed by three drug addicts in her own home. She had no way to defend herself. And quite frankly, I'm scared if (which of course will never happen :lol: ) guns get banned. If someone breaks into my house and either has a gun or a knife, and I have nothing... what should I do? Cower and let them have their way with my life? fu** no! I'm going to fight till I draw my last breath to defend my house, family, and life. What I'm going to do is draw a firearm on them, and God forbid I have to take their life or seriously injure them. In most instances, just having the gun drawn on the intruder would be enough for them to simply just surrender or leave without the user having to pull the trigger. But, Pacifists like to try and find false optimism in humanity, while warmongers seek the pessimism, and in-betweeners try to reason with the human condition. The fact of the matter is this, guns or no guns, when there is a will there is a way. If someone wants you dead- they don't need a gun to commit the act of killing, sure it makes things faster and easier, but there are thousands of ways to end a life- it just so happens AR-15's are the flavor of the week. Guns don't define violence, whether anyone likes to believe that or not.

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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by soccer11 » 18 Dec 2012, 13:24

Not saying all guns need to be banned, Just see no use to fire that many shots in such a short period of time. Some of those kids were shot up to 11 times! And most of them at least 3 times. That's madness. No matter how mentally unstable someone is, think if he only would have had a revolver or a shotgun. There would have only been a certain amount of damage that could have been done, having a slower reload time and whatnot. Someone would have eventually jumped on him mid-reload, before he was able to fire off as many shtos as he did.
Both sides need to give a little. Banning all guns is impossible but things can't stay the way they are. Just look at the stats from other countries that have banned guns. Obviously, gun violence hasn't disappeared completely but the numbers for America is embarrassing. The only reason people don't want to give up their guns is because "we like shooting and sh*t." fu** that. We've tried it one way. Time to try another.
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by panchester07 » 18 Dec 2012, 15:19

2) apart from me seeing a trend in the exageration of "disorders" among these first world countries, there is also the polar oposite like this case, there are some tremendously sick people, 20 years back to now, there's been a 200% increase in Austism. I don't know much about autisim, but i understand your like unable to connect with people, and you also have some outstanding gifts

Outside of the US a lot of these "disorders" are not diagnosed at all.
Oh i know, the autism figure is world wide, a lot of links point to vaccines. then again, don't you feel like in some places, every human emotion is almost considered a "disorder"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTZvnAF7UsA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ictonupsrb0
I mean, expert, please check this out? i can almost pee in laughter of the lameness of this bulls**t, progess!!!!! You really say this has no toxic effects?

The only thing they are missing is making a "prozac" mascot he can be a parrot pirate, that keeps the jar of pills under his wings, and he fly to a branch, and say, "its time to do some pill popping aaarrr" i think that would sell.. right? this reality doesn't seem so far away. and all the kids can run to the tree and start chanting and celebrating!!! yay make it rain pills.. you can say im a fool, but think about it, how many people wake up every morning to stuff something into their bodies to function normally because they believe something is wrong with them?

The problem with these types of commercials, is that they mess directly with the belief system of people, there can be good music and it can seem like something good is meant out of it, but subliminally its sending you all kinds of signals.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.
Ok, by this news story I have understood that this kid is 13. Theres also another element I think we are all leaving out and that is discipline.

To name a couple examples, in the news story it mentions the kid loves harry potter, look i know this is an exagerated example, but when my father saw that at 12 I was reading the first harry potter book, he took it away from me, he said don't read that sh*t it has deamonology in it. Maybe my father was overly paranoid, but did you hear anything about any of this kids fathers figure? Not in adam lanza's case, not in here either. Where is the image of a father? Or where is the mother, supervising what his own son feeds into his brain constantly? i say if the kid has atendency to get violent, then keep him away from violent surroundings, and whip the living sh*t out of him everytime he behaves in ways that dissapoint you. Its the old school mama loving, i hit you with the belt, with my flip flops, or with the stick of brrom.. in some places in the world this is the model of raising children. at the end of the day, the child now a grown up, is most of the time thankful for all the pain and suffering their parents caused on them, because the forged the right character and behaviours, not only to not be a mass murderer, but also to be successful and full in life, and success if ofcourse much more than a college degree and a 6 figure salary

Another case, in the story it says, the kid just looses it and threatens to kill the mom, and calls her a stupid bitch. I understand the kid is a little whacko, or completely whacko if you would, but if they know that, why do they expose him to that type of ecosystem. What im saying is, if he's 13 and he wants to stab somebody to kill him its because he prolly saw it on TV, probably on a channel he wasn't suppose to be watching, or maybe his mom bought him call of duty and never restricted his play. I mean, if you want to change the world, change yourself they say, well of course there are extreme cases, but instead of reforming the whole system which i agree with, or i don't know enough about to have an opinion, start the change at home, less divorces, more time together in family, keep things old school, they weren't so fu**ed up, when man started noticing how much we advance we seem to want to question all our morals, pricniples, foundations, systems etc. We can split the atom, and live in jungles of concrete, we are in the moon but heck, is that "progress" our are we just becoming super-advanced-human and are we forgetting that we are also beings? human-beings. chances are what has always worked for every mother would work now, the only difference now all the traditional discipline, carrot and stick system of raising kids is being questioned, in this 21st century, we do everything the opposite way, and all wecare about is external models. and its also going pretty sh*tty imho!
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by panchester07 » 20 Dec 2012, 14:47

Expert here's an article that talks about what I posted above.. i saw it on facebook and thought it was worth the share since it links a little with mental health and development that we are commenting, just a little on demographics and well being, that i thought was just a observation i had, apparently maybe not

http://news.yahoo.com/latin-americans-r ... 34118.html

Did anyone see that Lanza was confirmed to be on psychotics while he commited the atrocious attack

http://naturalsociety.com/predictions-c ... ic-fanapt/

-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 22298.html

This also is interesting.. his mom was preparing for economic collapse and grew her own food and had a lot of guns to be able to survive in the future.. look i am a will smith fan my self, and i am legend was awesome but..

That would imply that its more than just mental ilnnes, also a lot of human responsibility involved.
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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by expert » 24 Dec 2012, 13:41

Panchester, the first article is pretty interesting. I guess it makes sense that certain Western nations that have a lot of social mobility would be less happy than some poorer countries. Another interesting point mentioned in the article was that some cultures might be more disposed at responding to the survey in a positive way. Kinda of interesting that Southern and Central Americans in particular report being happier than people of other nationalities.

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Re: Conneticut elementary school shooting

Post by panchester07 » 25 Dec 2012, 19:15

expert wrote:Panchester, the first article is pretty interesting. I guess it makes sense that certain Western nations that have a lot of social mobility would be less happy than some poorer countries. Another interesting point mentioned in the article was that some cultures might be more disposed at responding to the survey in a positive way. Kinda of interesting that Southern and Central Americans in particular report being happier than people of other nationalities.
yeah im pretty sure it has a lot to do with unity and the togetherness of the people more than any other factors like the article says the latino due to his lifestyle and conditions basically is like a fish in fish bank, the coffee and the empanadas before work, then work, then leave back home together, people here are not so educated, not so learned haven't achieved so much maybe, so they don't have to carry that ego around anyway of how much they have and achieved, they have not much, so since they are not possessed by their bank account or their social status like rich people or first world people, all they have is their friends and family and their people, mostly good people, with a warm merry attitude the mayority of the time, they just gotta work with what they have and living in home with grandma, 3 siblings a few dogs, thats the life, the simpleness and the tight bond and loyalty of the low class latin american is astounding.

relating to the topic, in my personal view, these factors play crucial rolls in mental health, and thats why we have seen more or all the massacres occur in the USA. I just noted a link between the too... the thing with america is that its gigantic there are a lot of great people and all, the mayority, but there are a lot of mentally ill people as well and sick drug addict bum psycho's.
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