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Did Italy disserve to win the world cup
| Posted: 09 Nov 2006, 20:03 | |
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One needs to distinguish between two categories of winning, winning with style and winning with no style.
One can say that Brazil in 2002 won the World Cup with style. But Italy in 2006 didn't win it with style, they were psychologically stronger than than France who were unlucky. This happens even at lower levels of competition, for instance in local leagues where I play, My team always plays cleans and with style but we often face teams who play dirty (elbows, nasty fouls, trash talking) and who end up winning the league. For regular people Italy will go down in history as the team who won the World Cup in 2006, but for expert footballers the will be the team who won with no style. 
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2006, 01:32 | |
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That's the difference between being flashy and buisnesslike. Offence vs. Defence. Nothing bad about that, although it might not be as fun for you to watch.
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2006, 05:08 | |
EF Flying Dutchman Joined: 23 Jul 2006, 19:39 Posts: 2830 Location: San Francisco, CA |
I agree with you on the style and no style part. If I had a choice to be on the French team or the Italian team in the World Cup Final, I would choose the French. At least the French went out with style, while the Italians won with holding the ball in their defence. So I agree with everything you said.
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| Posted: 03 Dec 2006, 05:11 | |
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ITALY didnt deserve the world cup. they only just beat australia to make quarter finals. and the italian took a dive to get the penalty that won them the game, shame on you grosso.
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| Posted: 31 Dec 2007, 08:23 | |
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er for me yeah of course they deserved it.they had great defenders.
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| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 03:32 | |
Veteran Member Joined: 26 May 2007, 19:29 Posts: 465 |
DouDou wrote: One needs to distinguish between two categories of winning, winning with style and winning with no style.
One can say that Brazil in 2002 won the World Cup with style. But Italy in 2006 didn't win it with style, they were psychologically stronger than than France who were unlucky. This happens even at lower levels of competition, for instance in local leagues where I play, My team always plays cleans and with style but we often face teams who play dirty (elbows, nasty fouls, trash talking) and who end up winning the league. For regular people Italy will go down in history as the team who won the World Cup in 2006, but for expert footballers the will be the team who won with no style. just cause this sites name is expertfootball doesn;t mean there's good players on these forums  (uncalled for and irrelevant, yes i believe so)
Grosso is a douche, that ref was an idiot.. 'nuff said. It would have been interesting to see the Aussie's in the World Cup final. |
| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 03:41 | |
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I can't really decide whether or not Italy deserved to win. I really don't like both of the teams but if i had to pick a team it would have been Italy( i know its weird that i am kind of saying the team that i want to win didn't deserve it). I think i zidane didn't get kicked out then France would have won it . Italy just won out of luck...
Germany should have won the whole cup..... 
Bulgaria is our faith, Levski is our Freedom |
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| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 15:46 | |
The Italian Mod Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 22:03 Posts: 3034 |
It's not a question of whether or not they deserved it, the only thing that shows up is the W and the gleam in the trophy case. Hell, I wanted Australia to win, but there will always be controversy. To say they won it indisputably is impossible, because there will always be gripes.
But come on... You wanted them to win with STYLE? It takes a world class country to even get that far, and... Put yourself in the position of an Italian player. Maybe he did make a flop, maybe he didn't. Maybe he did go down soft once or twice, maybe he didn't. Maybe MM called Zidane's sister a daughter of a terrorist whore, maybe he didn't. But you're that far. You will do whatever it takes, and take no chances. I wouldn't want to risk my World Cup just because I wanted to fool around a bit more to make myself look good. They did fine. Keep possession, ensure victory. They owe France nothing, it is France who are behind to no one's fault but their own. |
| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 17:46 | |
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Rome_Leader wrote: It's not a question of whether or not they deserved it, the only thing that shows up is the W and the gleam in the trophy case. Hell, I wanted Australia to win, but there will always be controversy. To say they won it indisputably is impossible, because there will always be gripes.
But come on... You wanted them to win with STYLE? It takes a world class country to even get that far, and... Put yourself in the position of an Italian player. Maybe he did make a flop, maybe he didn't. Maybe he did go down soft once or twice, maybe he didn't. Maybe MM called Zidane's sister a daughter of a terrorist whore, maybe he didn't. But you're that far. You will do whatever it takes, and take no chances. I wouldn't want to risk my World Cup just because I wanted to fool around a bit more to make myself look good. They did fine. Keep possession, ensure victory. They owe France nothing, it is France who are behind to no one's fault but their own. I don't like to post in dead topics but I feel the urge to do so. Of course winning the World Cup is the most important for players and the team. And some players do whatever it takes to win. "The end justifies the means". But As i had mentioned in my post above there is "winning with style" and "winning with no style". Not only that, it is rather obvious that a large number of EF forum members and people for that matter contest Italy's win in WC 2006 while very few if any(even people like me who in general dislike Brazil) contest Brazil's win in WC 2002. To sum up it is clear that Italy's win is a controversial win, did they deserve to win? it depends on what angle you look at it. But if you ask me I don't think they won it because of their great football... 
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| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 17:54 | |
Veteran Member Joined: 22 May 2007, 01:25 Posts: 917 |
The reason no one thinks Italy deserves to win is that no one likes Italy. If someone wins the WC and you didn't want them to win, of course you'll say they didn't deserve it.
It is doesn't matter whether they deserved to win it or not, they did, and they did it because they were better than everyone else. And you can say "Blah blah blah they only won because they dove and got a penalty and beat Australia", but get over it, it happens in football, alot. Italy isn't the only country that dove, everyone did. Brazil only won with style because they are Brazil, and that is how they play. Italy won the WC and that is what happened so get over it. Like Rome_Leader said, they came to win, they only let 1 goal in during all non-final games, and that was an own goal. Italy did deserve it. They worked hard the whole time, and no one can take it away from them. 
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| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 18:07 | |
Veteran Member Joined: 18 May 2007, 21:47 Posts: 303 |
Italy didn't deserve to win at all,they were very lucky to reach the final,I don't like how they play to tactical.France deserved to win.
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| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 18:21 | |
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The Italian Mod Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 22:03 Posts: 3034 |
DouDou wrote: To sum up it is clear that Italy's win is a controversial win, did they deserve to win? it depends on what angle you look at it. But if you ask me I don't think they won it because of their great football...
Then how, pray tell, does a country's team go through group and knockout stages to the finals and win without "great football"? You get lucky here and there, but you have to have skill to win. As they say... You have to be lucky to be good, but good to be lucky. And if you're implying they flat out cheated their way to the Cup... I'm sure if it was THAT big a controversy, it would've been looked into, and regardless, i didn't see any of the sort. |
| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 18:50 | |
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ForzaMilan wrote: The reason no one thinks Italy deserves to win is that no one likes Italy. Hmm I wonder why?? perhaps they lack style?? ForzaMilan wrote: If someone wins the WC and you didn't want them to win, of course you'll say they didn't deserve it.. Not true many people didn't want Brazil to win but still think they 100% deserved the WC in 2002ForzaMilan wrote: It is doesn't matter whether they deserved to win it or not, they did, and they did it because they were better than everyone else.. Better than everyone else??? I don't know about that but yeah definately better in diving, nasty fouls, and intimidating attackers.ForzaMilan wrote: Brazil only won with style because they are Brazil, and that is how they play. Are you subconsciously admitting that Italy has no style?
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| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 19:08 | |
Veteran Member Joined: 16 Jul 2007, 14:58 Posts: 1160 |
I dont understand how people can say that!? They made it to the final on talent, skill and good team play/effort... Personally i think they might have played some of the ugliest games in the entire tournament but people shouldnt question them just because they won in a shootout.
 sig by 2brown347 |
| Posted: 02 Jan 2008, 19:28 | |
Guide Goddess Joined: 30 Jun 2006, 22:00 Posts: 2076 Location: USA |
DouDou wrote: ForzaMilan wrote: The reason no one thinks Italy deserves to win is that no one likes Italy. Hmm I wonder why?? perhaps they lack style?? He's just making a comment on people's preconceived bias towards Italy. You're not really making any point because you can't speak for everyone who doesn't like Italy, you can't even speak for anywhere near a majority of those people. I agree with him in saying that because people were against Italy that it is easier to come to the conclusion that they "didn't deserve to win". DouDou wrote: ForzaMilan wrote: If someone wins the WC and you didn't want them to win, of course you'll say they didn't deserve it.. Not true many people didn't want Brazil to win but still think they 100% deserved the WC in 2002In general, though, he makes a solid point. People are biased with their opinions to who they want to succeed in the WC and because of this they may say that a certain team didn't deserve to win. Although this may not always be the case, a large percent of the time we can't control our preconceived opinions if we feel strong enough about them. Again, not always true, but can be. DouDou wrote: ForzaMilan wrote: It is doesn't matter whether they deserved to win it or not, they did, and they did it because they were better than everyone else.. Better than everyone else??? I don't know about that but yeah definately better in diving, nasty fouls, and intimidating attackers.In the end Italy did what they had to do. They met some fine competition in their final games and they succeeded. And he's right it doesn't really matter if a team deserves it. What matters is the final outcome and Italy came out on top. People need to accept that. In the end Italy came out on top and they were the best. DouDou wrote: ForzaMilan wrote: Brazil only won with style because they are Brazil, and that is how they play. Are you subconsciously admitting that Italy has no style?He is saying that Brazil plays with an admirable style. To me, there's no denying that. Because of this style it was easier to accept Brazil as the winner whether you wanted them to win or not. (More reasoning against your second point.) However, Brazil is very unique in the retrospect of their play and very few if not no countries are on par with Brazil's unique play or style. You're saying that Italy has no style, and compared to Brazil it certainly seemed so, however Italy, in the least, tied France, a feat of which Brazil couldn't accomplish during the '06 WC. That goes to show that style isn't everything. DouDou, you kept bringing in style to your argument, but quite frankly, style has no ground in any argument to whether a team deserves to win. A team deserves to win for doing their job and keeping the other team from doing theirs. Therefore, Italy deserved to win and they did. In addition to all my previous points, I would like to say that I don't agree with this topic in general. It doesn't matter in the slightest if a team "deserved" to win. What matters is what happened on the pitch and who came out on top. |