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You want your faith in God to soar, then check this out...
| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 15:51 | |
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There are plenty of different psychological disorders that we know of that could cause such behavior. If we have the knowledge to give us a perfectly good explanation of what is happening why attribute it to a god\devil?
Just because something seems "complex" to us doesn't mean that something else had to create it. By pushing the "blame" to something we can not comprehend (if it is real!) just ruins the chance of that person even looking for a reason to it we understand. Please, if you don't understand something don't use the reasoning that a higher power did it. I am not here to tell you whether or not to believe though, that is your choice. If you must do it to feel comfortable in life so be it, but there is no reason think a higher power did it and there is no reason we can understand. This makes you blind (lack of a better word) to the causes of certain phenomena\experiences that we can explain. "Somewhere along the line, we seem to have confused comfort with happiness" |
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 17:29 | |
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You guys are too smart.
Wow, mental note: Never underestimate the atheism in anglosajoon countries If you say, there is a mental condition that has the power to make a human act like something else, then thats something I learned today, because I had never heard of a woman that drinks her piss, speaks different languages, calls lucifers name, I have no proof for the crosses being upside down, but everytime she was shown the cross she would make an awkard ass furious ass face, she unconciously couldnt pass close to the cross, she refused to eat, spoke tongues, glass broke in her house, if there is a mental condition that has ALL these symptoms to it, then maybe you are right.. To icy: Why attribute it to God/devil?... She got interned twice, had medication, pills, treatment (like I mentioned)... NOTHING worked, she said it all along I AM possessed, the priest said no I cant treat you 1 and 2 times, the third time it was already too obvious, and she went through they tried to exorcise her, according to some sources, the day she died, all the demons got expelled... I mean, everytime you explain to me why you think its just a mental condition you leave out 2 or 3 symptoms that she was having, that could clearly be something else besides a mental condition.. to know Him is to want to know Him more" "i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not" Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..' |
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 18:07 | |
Veteran Member Joined: 20 Jan 2007, 20:26 Posts: 2921 Location: Vancouver |
Here listen to this crazy audio tape http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuiKJ0rRTAo
This guy is talking to himself in completely different voices then covers his hand in Sodium Hydroxide, he must be possessed right? There must be a supernatural explanation!   www.mission-control.tumblr.com |
| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 20:00 | |
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Panchester I think it has more to do with how we look at the world rather than how "smart" any of us are.
I view the world in the way that anything can be explained I still believe almost everything can be explained. I say almost because the chances of finding definitively how the universe started is more or less nothing. While some things can be absolutely crazy that it can happen (such as mental disorders) this doesn't make me look to put the blame on something rather than natural processes. Now I am going to put words in your mouth so correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that you view the world in a way that anything that seems too obserd to happen naturally (such as someone acting in a way we imagine posession) you attribute to something we cannot explain and are fine with that. To me it makes it all the more interesting that I believe things like this can happen naturally. Think about it for a second, if there isn't a god and just the way life was formed allowed for these "imperfections". Doesn't that intrigue you? This next part will be long but I'll list (atleast) one mental disorder that can cause each symptom: Quote: drinks her piss Coprophagia Quote: speaks different languages http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Czech_Crash_V ... ct_English - Not a specific medical condition but shows what brain damage can do Quote: calls lucifers name Torrettes causes people to yell out "random" things Quote: shown the cross she would make an awkard ass furious ass face or she unconciously couldnt pass close to the cross Certainly you've heard of weird phobias people can have this is just a case like that Quote: she refused to eat There are tons of things for this one example being depression Quote: spoke tongues Some mentally handicapped people spoke in their own "tongues" - Heck there are some mentally handicapped people that in a sense live in their own worlds in their heads. Quote: She got interned twice, had medication, pills, treatment (like I mentioned)... NOTHING worked, she said it all along I AM possessed Drugs aren't always the cure for things. Ever seen the commercials for depression medicines that can cause thoughts of suicide? Perhaps they were treating the wrong disorder because of a misdiagnosis. Also yelling you're posessed doesn't mean they are. There are people who are mentally handicapped that yell "crazy" things all the time. Quote: the priest said no I cant treat you 1 and 2 times, the third time it was already too obvious, and she went through they tried to exorcise her, according to some sources, the day she died, all the demons got expelled...
This part is based purely on whether you believe in religion or not. To me it's quite obvious a priest could do nothing. Let's say that there is a god\devil right now though. Is it as easy to get rid of the devils presence on earth as saying some prescripted phrase\showing the cross\holy water? If this is the case why the hell can us imperfect humans get rid of his presence but god cannot keep him off Earth when he is perfect? So lets recap: As you can see there are examples of each symptom (atleast listed in your last post) happening to others. Now, yes it is possible that there was no single mental disorder causing it but rather multiple disorders. If you want me to elaborate on this ask because this post is already too long. haha "Somewhere along the line, we seem to have confused comfort with happiness" |
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 20:28 | |
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Hugh wrote: Here listen to this crazy audio tape http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuiKJ0rRTAo
This guy is talking to himself in completely different voices then covers his hand in Sodium Hydroxide, he must be possessed right? There must be a supernatural explanation! hugh, just because you can make a joke, doesnt mean you a right, for the second time, No one said that person is possessed, im against fanaticism and apocalyptic theories too.. Things happen for a reason, while some lunatics can debate that that person is possessed, Im not. I know when things have a logical explanation, and I know when things cant be explained by sciencce, like manythings cant... Icy, you are too smart... haha, Okay, then if you like to talk about chances and statistics, what are the chances that a single woman, has all these mental disorders herself? She died already unfortunately, we will never know the truth.. But you like to believe, that the person had 6-7-8 mental disorders herself, I like to believe that having 1 disorder is rare, how can some one have 7 of them?? Certainly a person can convince herself she is possessed, but being exorcised for 10 months with no results?? If she convinced herself she was possessed, she obviously can, (she looked for an exorcism) convince herself that an exorcism is the cure... Do you really think, she had all these disorders in one? Im not being obsesive, if there is an eclipse I wont say its because God is mad at us.. But a woman chanting that she is possessed, saying the devils name, and doing all the things I said before (that you said there was a condition for each). In this case, in my opinion, you are beeing biased, refusing to accept what is obvious.. to know Him is to want to know Him more" "i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not" Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..' |
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 21:20 | |
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I saw a special once on this type of stuff and they were saying that the human mind is so advanced that if you actually believed you were being grabbed or choked your body could produce red marks and brusing. I wish I remembered what channel it was on, I can't find any clips of it.
It's a interesting concept to say the least. |
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 21:25 | |
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on an experiment done on a man, they told him they were gonna drain as much blood from him as possible, to see how much blood the human body can live without.. They told him there was a slight chance that he might die..
The started sucking blood out of him with a needle, and they told him "We have now sucked 1 litter of blood, you will start to feel weaker and you might pass out soon, your vital sings might slow down", soon he passed out, and later he died... The truth was they hadnt sucked a teaspoon of blood from him, they just made him believe this and told him all the things he should be feeling... The mind.. to know Him is to want to know Him more" "i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not" Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..' |
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 21:27 | |
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You're right, for her to have each of the disorders I mentioned would be a rarity. I posted that simply to show that the mind has the potential to do what is perceived as "crazy" by our standards.
Depression and schizophrenia are two disorders that go hand in hand a lot of the time. There are different types of schizophrenia and I'll list a few here that are relavent: Disorganized schizophrenia - lack of coherent thoughts\speech\emotions\behavior Paranoid schizophrenia - delusions and auditory hallucinations (Ex: thinking someone is plotting to kill them) Undifferentiated schizophrenia - Having symptoms of multiple types of schizophrenia. Disorganized schizophrenia can explain: -drinks her piss (lack of coherent behavior) -calls out lucifers name (lack of coherrent speech) -unusual reaction to the cross (lack of coherrent emotions) -spoke in tongues (lack of coherrent speech) Paranoid schizophrenia can explain: -Yelling she is posessed (along with disorganized schizophrenia) due to hearing voices (hallucinations) Depression can explain: refusing to eat Now from the list of what was given before this would leave speaking perfectly in other languages. To be honest I can give no better answer than a "maybe" considering I can't test it on her but here it goes: You saw the link where someone who had a brain injury started to speak perfect english (even with an accent), correct? Do you think the stress from starvation - among presumably other things she was doing - could invoke a reaction like this in her brain? "Somewhere along the line, we seem to have confused comfort with happiness" |
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 21:57 | |
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Maybe man, who knows..
Man im thrilled by psychiatry and psychology and all these things, but I dont wanna study them for that exact reason.. If I get to caught up in theory im afraid it will happen to me and I cant enjoy the practice of life... Imagine studying schizophrenia in depth, the mind is so powerful it might even start having some symptoms of it... Anyway Im happy for my mental health.. Im going to study something like sports broadcasting and live my life away from all these mental situations... I dont want to focus on it more than needed, because as we know, power of mind is incredible, we only use 10 %... So im going to keep playing football every day like I do.. Keep helping others, keep having good friends, a girl friend.. Keep in normal activities.. Like little kids, they are always busy playing and normal activities they dont have time to get depressed, or anxious or what not.. I dont know if anyone has noticed this but I did, because I dont live in the US.. But every now and then after I done all my stuff, at night I like to watch those Shows like Dave Leterman and shit.. I have Satelite Tv so I get Cbs, and ABC and a few other American Channels, ( I also get French Tv, Spanish Tv, i get a little bit from all countries and the other 70% is latin america.. and what not) I noticed that in the commercial breaks I saw like 3 or 4 different depression pills .. In the countires Ive been too I never saw 1 announcement of these drugs... Why are there so many depressed people in the US that there has to be all these pills annouunced? In my 3rd world county fine we are not as rich as others, but if we are sad, We drink, end of story.. My life is very active and so is everybody else you know.. Even tthe poor person goes out and does like bull fights, or Chiken fights, I dont know.. More developed countries have more people with mental issues imo.. That was so off-topic but I guess you can kind of relate it..... to know Him is to want to know Him more" "i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not" Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..' |
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| Posted: 29 Nov 2009, 22:32 | |
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Veteran Member Joined: 20 Jan 2007, 20:26 Posts: 2921 Location: Vancouver |
panchester07 wrote: Hugh wrote: Here listen to this crazy audio tape http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuiKJ0rRTAo This guy is talking to himself in completely different voices then covers his hand in Sodium Hydroxide, he must be possessed right? There must be a supernatural explanation! hugh, just because you can make a joke, doesnt mean you a right, for the second time, No one said that person is possessed, im against fanaticism and apocalyptic theories too.. Things happen for a reason, while some lunatics can debate that that person is possessed, Im not. I know when things have a logical explanation, and I know when things cant be explained by sciencce, like manythings cant... haha, Okay, then if you like to talk about chances and statistics, what are the chances that a single woman, has all these mental disorders herself? She died already unfortunately, we will never know the truth.. But you like to believe, that the person had 6-7-8 mental disorders herself, I like to believe that having 1 disorder is rare, how can some one have 7 of them?? Do you really think, she had all these disorders in one? Im not being obsesive, if there is an eclipse I wont say its because God is mad at us.. But a woman chanting that she is possessed, saying the devils name, and doing all the things I said before (that you said there was a condition for each). In this case, in my opinion, you are beeing biased, refusing to accept what is obvious.. The joke is that self destructive behaviour is a well documented phenomenon among schizophrenics And as for her chances of having all those conditions at the same time... would you say that they're around 2 or 3 in 10 billion? Because that's the amount of humans we're talking about over the last 100 years who could have possibly had this happen to them. Assuming that everyone has an equal chance of developing schizophrenia then 3 in 10 billion odds of developing all of these things seems very reasonable to me. www.mission-control.tumblr.com |
| Posted: 30 Nov 2009, 01:48 | |
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Hugh, your odds are off. Even if one in a thousand people had one of those conditions (and I'm strongly convinced they are more rare than that), the odds of having all 7 (?) would be:
.001^7 = (1x10^-3)^7 = 1x10^-21 Which is a tiny number. That means only one person in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 people will have those odds. Again, that's if one in 1000 people have each of those conditions. THATS ALOT OF PEOPLE. Naturalists always get caught up by the numbers, in my opinion. You can't assume that "odds have it" until you realize how small those odds are. Especially when your world revolves around mathematical and physical laws. I could go on. Naturalists believe that the human species is evolving and that culture is increasing. This seems to be a counterexample of that philosophy, if indeed this girl was one of those low-odds chances of having seven different serious psychological conditions. ZIDANE THE LEGEND  Check out my Anaerobic Fitness Guide |
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| Posted: 30 Nov 2009, 02:39 | |
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Veteran Member Joined: 20 Jan 2007, 20:26 Posts: 2921 Location: Vancouver |
netdoctor.co.uk wrote: How common is schizophrenia?
Worldwide schizophrenia is present in two to four people per 1000 of the population at any one time. One in 100 people will develop schizophrenia in their lifetime. 1/100^7 is around 1 in a trillion, significantly less than your result. When you're dealing with over 10 billion people in infinitely varied living conditions, pre existing genetic dispositions, daddy issues etc, the odds become a lot more reasonable. 10 billion people living for roughly 60 years a piece is a really really long timescale and when you consider how stories can be exaggerated and how little science and medicine were understood just 75 years ago, not to mention pre 20th century, you've got almost the perfect set of conditions for this kind of thing to happen. I'm sorry but this is simply not a convincing argument for anything. www.mission-control.tumblr.com |
| Posted: 30 Nov 2009, 03:10 | |
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Dude it was in 74 .. 35 years ago not 70 your taking it way to far.. Plus it happened in Germany definetly a very developed country and top 5 in medicine for sure...
The only reason im going to believe she wasnt possessed was if she had atleast 7 different mental conditions, and well i didnt understand the odds but they are small.. Additional to that, you have to consider that doctors treated her for a period of like 3 years.. In germany, some SPECIALISTS.. all that yes there is a slight slight slight possibility that they had an error and couldnt treat her properly... If you want to believe that a girl 30 years in germany, had a 7 diferent medical conditions, and you want to believe that the info we have of her reaction to the crosses is bullshit, and that no doctor in germany could treat her properly, and that she just couldnt be treated.... Then knock yourself out, I cant make you believe anything.. But the odds of all these things happening are maybe 1 in a trillion. to know Him is to want to know Him more" "i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not" Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..' |
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| Posted: 30 Nov 2009, 03:32 | |
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Hugh wrote: netdoctor.co.uk wrote: How common is schizophrenia? Worldwide schizophrenia is present in two to four people per 1000 of the population at any one time. One in 100 people will develop schizophrenia in their lifetime. 1/100^7 is around 1 in a trillion, significantly less than your result. When you're dealing with over 10 billion people in infinitely varied living conditions, pre existing genetic dispositions, daddy issues etc, the odds become a lot more reasonable. 10 billion people living for roughly 60 years a piece is a really really long timescale and when you consider how stories can be exaggerated and how little science and medicine were understood just 75 years ago, not to mention pre 20th century, you've got almost the perfect set of conditions for this kind of thing to happen. I'm sorry but this is simply not a convincing argument for anything. Do the math my friend. (1/1000)^7 = 1X10^-21 That's one billionth of a trillionth. That's tiny. You were using (1/100)^7. Also, my arbitrary assumption of one in a thousand is extremely conservative. ZIDANE THE LEGEND Check out my Anaerobic Fitness Guide |
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| Posted: 30 Nov 2009, 03:42 | |
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The odds of getting hit by a meteor are very small aswell, but it happens.
Even if the odds of something are extremely small it could happen to 7 out of 1000 people you survey. Shit happens. |
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