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US Mens National Team Thread
| Posted: 28 May 2010, 12:49 Report Quote | |
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TommyGun wrote: The whole battle is comparing apples and kitchen sinks. There are simply too many factors that determine athletic ability. If you look at like a numbers game, China has 4 times the population to select from to train, condition, and develop athletes to compete at the highest level. Canada has roughly 30 Million people, 1/10th of the population for the U.S. Population aside, it's more about the exposure like many of you have said previously. I'll tell you just from being here a year, hockey is king in Canada. I'd say soccer in the US is behind Baseball, Football, Basketball only because of the tradition.
I think the youth programs that are being implemented in large metropolitan areas will do a great job cultivating the possible talent from an early age. Of course, there's a lead time to that development. Right now, the money is in baseball, football, and basketball in the U.S. so why would some extremely athletic kid gravitate to soccer as a long term career when there are very few successful soccer stars from the US. That's why everyone wants to be Lebron, Jordan, Reggie Bush, Brees, etc. instead of anyone in the MLS they've never heard of. One of my neighbors was extremely athletic and played most sports growing up. He played soccer, baseball, basketball and was successful at almost any sport he attempted based on his ability. When he reached high school, he chose baseball...forced to play year-round because the coach didn't want any dual-sport athletes because of the possibilities of injuries/skill development. He went on to get a full ride scholarship to a D1 school, drafted his junior(6th round, didn't accept) and senior years of college, going 4th round to the Marlins. To this day, if he would have chose soccer...there's no telling what would have happen. The point is, we all know people like this. I grew up in a 3,000 person town in North Carolina...so think of the possibilities in bigger cities. If soccer was more popular in the US, you'd have extremely talented athletes in general trying to raise the level of soccer in the US. It's more of a what-if, than a "this would be" because that's just not the reality. What if Rooney ignored his football talent and pursued an education in engineering? See what I mean? This! Plus.... Our biggest problem, IMO, is keeping boys in the sport especially when they reach high school age. Lets face it this sport is usually something a kid plays along with others when their growing up or something your sister does. Once they reach middle school or high school they give it up to focus on basketball, baseball, or football because that is the only way they feel they can get to college or maybe beyond. I've watched a lot of highschool games and I've seen some truly talented kids give up the sport or not pursue college programs. The latter is tricky because I think most kids believe, in any sport, that if you do well a college program will find out about you. It doesn't work that way. Most kids IMO want to be scouted by a college coach, some don't want to contact coaches themselves because its not as appealing. Another problem is sometimes the college system. We've always told kids you have to go to college, go after high school, the longer you wait the worse it is, etc. But there are some players who have no buisness playing in college and could go pro right now. Their not going to go to a top club right away but they couldd find a good club to develop at. We are making strides particularly with the Development Academy and the MLS academies actually starting to sign youth players. We still have a ways to go though. Not every states has an MLS or even USL/ USSF 2 team. I think we also have to focus on Bradenton. I think some kids think the U17 residency is the "big time". Its not. I've seen the lists year after year and some of those kids aren't professional, most will leave after 1 year to go back to their high school to play on their team and graduate with friends, etc. I'm not saying its bad, its certainly a great soccer specific environment but just because you go to Bradenton, doesn't mean you'll make it. Then there are the fees for youth soccer which I don't even want to get into, its just ridiculous. This is another reason we lose so many kids. As kids get older the programs get more serious, more tournaments, more college showcases, more travel, more money. |
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| Posted: 28 May 2010, 15:16 Report Quote | |
Admin Joined: 24 Feb 2005, 23:40 Posts: 4995 Location: Michigan, USA |
Well I'm not saying it would be an easy process. Obviously I don't mean this could happen anytime soon. It'll be long process because of the success of sports like basketball and football here. But just look at the evolution of the US national team. Once we started becoming better, we attracted more great athletes to the sport. I do think that one day, maybe 20 or 30 years from now, the US national team will have one of those freak athletes though (if we keep improving and the youth development program continues to get better also.) It doesn't mean he'll be a great footballer but he would fit the mold of what a US national team player is, which is athletic because as I said, I feel that's our strength.
And arsenal I disagree. I think we do need to get into the fees because in addition to having an incompetent USSF, it's one of the main reasons a lot of great athletes stop playing soccer and go on to another sport. Soccer has always been billed as the sport where "you just need a ball and friends" but we've kind of screwed that up too unfortunately. 
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| Posted: 28 May 2010, 15:47 Report Quote | |
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soccer11 wrote: Well I'm not saying it would be an easy process. Obviously I don't mean this could happen anytime soon. It'll be long process because of the success of sports like basketball and football here. But just look at the evolution of the US national team. Once we started becoming better, we attracted more great athletes to the sport. I do think that one day, maybe 20 or 30 years from now, the US national team will have one of those freak athletes though (if we keep improving and the youth development program continues to get better also.) It doesn't mean he'll be a great footballer but he would fit the mold of what a US national team player is, which is athletic because as I said, I feel that's our strength.
And arsenal I disagree. I think we do need to get into the fees because in addition to having an incompetent USSF, it's one of the main reasons a lot of great athletes stop playing soccer and go on to another sport. Soccer has always been billed as the sport where "you just need a ball and friends" but we've kind of screwed that up too unfortunately. Fee's are a big problem! I've seen $1000 plus per season and that doesn't include meals, travel (airfare or gas if you drive a car), extra tournaments, new boots, shinguards, etc. However, you look at even local clubs in Europe (ones not affiliated through a pro club) and fees are minimal or no fees at all. |
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| Posted: 28 May 2010, 16:18 Report Quote | |
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Can I just mention that I played with the kids in Bradenton and it looked really profesional imo?
I would wake up at 7.00 and go to the cafeteria and they would walk in around 7.15 sweaty as hell all of them, they where like 30, and they would walk in like 5 at a time. I remember this tall, blonde, muscular mother lover, that I later saw in SoccerAmerica Magazine, and even later saw in U-20 World Cup called Brek Shea. They played the IMG full timers, which are kids that want to go to college and pay 40K+ a year(most of them, some get scholarships) to be trained in Top environment. They beat the IMG kids 7-0. One sunday I was walking around, and I saw like 15 african american, with dreads, piercings, and dressed athletically. I thought these must be basketball players, as I get closer I see them doing all kinds of tricks with the football, and later they picked it up and started walking somewhere as more and more gathered I ask them "Yo can I play", and they reply "soccer?, you wanna play soccer" me said "yeah" .. And we played 5 v 5 on turf field for 3 weekends in a row. Above all exellent nice kids, physically beasts, and you could see they had a high level. Brek Shea wasn't even the best one of them, there where others that had best level. To be honest, I wasn't the worst in the field when we played, and I was younger than them they whre U-17's or so, but they where a few that I would think, what the hell are they doing here if they can play here so can I. Mostt of them though, exellente players, just a few that werent as good. They would train a lot, and everybody there respected them cause they where class, some of them though, where succky, I remember one tried to nutmeg me inocently the first play of the match, I frustrated him all match. Like I was saying, great for the area, respected an all, they'd travel to tournaments and bla bla, but, I don't know how they compare to other U-17's of other countries. to know Him is to want to know Him more" "i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not" Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..' |
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| Posted: 28 May 2010, 17:37 Report Quote | |
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panchester07 wrote: Look at the 3 top goal scorers of each league
Italy - Di Natale = white, decent athlete - Militto = white, decent athlete - Giampaolo Pazzini = white, decent athlete Spain - Lio Messi = white, decent athlete - Gonzalo Higuian = white, decent athlete -Cristiano Ronaldo = white, decent athlete England - Didider Drogba = black, super athlete - Wayne Rooney = white, decent athlete - Darren Bent = black, super athlete. (the rest are white) 
ZIDANE THE LEGEND  Check out my Anaerobic Fitness Guide |
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| Posted: 28 May 2010, 17:50 Report Quote | |
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I exagerated to make my point clear, and that point is that, we already have better athletes in football than others, yet there isn't a pattern in better athletes, and better footballers. Obviously Adebayour can jump the highest, and Droba can run fast, but not necesarilly does this mean that they are gonna be better footballers than Kaka, or Cr9, just because of their genes and evolution.
They'll make better athletes, better track runners, better poul vaulters, or long jump, but this game is much more than that, and just looking at the best teams of the world, and the best players of the world is proof. to know Him is to want to know Him more" "i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not" Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..' |
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| Posted: 29 May 2010, 00:51 Report Quote | |
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Admin Joined: 24 Feb 2005, 23:40 Posts: 4995 Location: Michigan, USA |
I actually think that Rooney is somewhat of a super athlete. He's really fast, has good hops and he was apparently a very good boxer and could've gone pro but chose football instead.
and c.ronaldo might be the best athlete in the football world right now.
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| Posted: 29 May 2010, 02:20 Report Quote | |
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soccer11 wrote: I actually think that Rooney is somewhat of a super athlete. He's really fast, has good hops and he was apparently a very good boxer and could've gone pro but chose football instead.
and c.ronaldo might be the best athlete in the football world right now. I'd say there's a lot of extremely fine-tuned athletes in all of professional sports. The world athlete gets thrown around entirely too much. All it implies is that a person participates in a sport...and these days, poker is a sport. I think Bolt, Phelps, Kobe Bryant, Julius Peppers, Tiger Woods and Drogba/Rooney are among some of the most talented and highly skilled athletes in the world. It's not just about the skill they possess, but delivering on the main stage when it counts(hence, added pressure). You can discount Phelps and say..."he just swims"...but damn, 14 gold medals for any sport is ridiculous. There are some relay swims in that count, but that's just a part of the sport. Soccer, Basketball, Football, Baseball are all sports that make you dependent on your team/teammates for support in one way or another. It's easy to forget that when you talk about who's the best athlete because you're talking about individuals that are on a team. If the team's service/deliveries aren't very good, it's harder for that athlete to shine unless they make their own chances. I think that's why I respect Drogba so much as a footballer. He just has a killer instinct and tends to create a lot of the chances for himself. His creativity on the ball, along with his raw athleticism makes me think he's capable of so much more than others at that level. I would mention CR in all of that, but I personally hate his attitude and demeanor on the field. 
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| Posted: 29 May 2010, 02:48 Report Quote | |
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Speaking of Drogba I always new he didn't become a house hold name until later in his career but I didn't know he didn't go pro until 19.
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| Posted: 30 May 2010, 00:00 Report Quote | |
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Admin Joined: 24 Feb 2005, 23:40 Posts: 4995 Location: Michigan, USA |
After watching todays game i made a few mental notes
-Cerundolo can't not start. He's our best bet at right back. Spector was the reason for Turkey's goal and once he went out, the defense played much better. -Onewyu and DeMerit have a really good partnership it seems. While Onewyu isn't 100% yet, he was visibly better in this game than on Tuesday. If Onewyu continues to improve, I think the defense has to be: Cherundolo--Onewyu--DeMerit--Bocanegra -Bornstein is still shit. It's no coincidence that Turkey got going again when Bornstein came in, but I understand that Bocanegra is coming back from injury so hopefully for our sake he's 100% in 2 weeks because Bornstein is not reliable. -Findley was a surprise. If he plays the way he did today I really wouldn't mind seeing him start. He connected really well with Donovan and Dempsy is much better in the midfield because he sees more of the ball. Findley was pretty much a poor man's Charlie Davies. -Torres played really well. He needs to start IMO. I like Clark, but things really got moving in the midfield once Torres came in. Also, Bradley was a box to box midfielder today. We don't really need a defensive mid if Bradley can play like that and I feel that Torres brings something that no one else on this team does, which is patience under pressure. Overall, we played a good 2nd half and a very sub par 1st half.
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| Posted: 30 May 2010, 01:38 Report Quote | |
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I agree .. Turkey was better in the first half, and the usa was better in the second, bottom line USA scored more goals in the half they dominated, even though imo Turkey had clearer chances in their half of domination...
Imo USA played better in the second half thanks to the changes Bradley made, but also because Turkey played much more passive, they attacked with much less players, and much less energy, and thats why the game shifter USA's way.. Good game to watch, as are most international matches with good teams. to know Him is to want to know Him more" "i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not" Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..' |
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| Posted: 30 May 2010, 01:47 Report Quote | |
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Glad to see you agree about spector s11, I still haven't forgiven him for the two goals mexico scored a couple years ago (I think it was a couple years ago?)
I agree about Findley as well. I've liked him since he first got to RSL, and even if he can vanish sometimes he knows how to play. |
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| Posted: 30 May 2010, 01:53 Report Quote | |
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Also I love Donovan, he always makes something happen. Extremely unpredictable, but extremely helpful, either asist, great oportunity or something, that mother... is quick, has the touch, and is the brain.
I thing about him is that you can tell he got quicker from hard work, I don't know if anyone has noticed, but he runs and accelerates in a way that you know he got fast from speed trainingg. to know Him is to want to know Him more" "i don't know where the limit is, but I know where it is not" Tocar y moverse y tratarla siempre muy muy bien..' |
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| Posted: 30 May 2010, 03:30 Report Quote | |
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I agree, the only problem with Donovan is that he has stayed in MLS so long. People say it's because he failed in German twice, but he didn't do that bad at Bayern, and he did great in the EPL this year. His style really fits the EPL too so I hope he goes there and tries to play a couple seasons while he still can. He really plays more than a lot of players too since in the last two seasons he's done the MLS and gone on loan to Europe during the off season. That's probably why he's improved so much in the last couple years (IMO). If we make it far in the WC I'll almost garentee it'll be due to Donovan.
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| Posted: 30 May 2010, 04:15 Report Quote | |
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Admin Joined: 24 Feb 2005, 23:40 Posts: 4995 Location: Michigan, USA |
I still think Spector could someday be a serviceable right back but that day isn't today. He needs to go to a lower league and get more playing time because sometimes it seems like he doesn't know what he's doing. He made a great run up the field but then didn't get back once he lost the ball.
And with team USA as a whole I think they'll do as good as Donovan and Dempsy do. If they play well, USA will play well.
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